UK Strain Carp

[MoCarp]

Looks like a few waters will be getting these stateside...sorry BFers they won't be letting you Thwack these waters

I can't imagine what a run from a 50-75 pound fish would be like from one of these...its no wonder people pay $2000 bucks a week to fish for these

I need to find a 10acre pond somewhere some $$$$ to be made 

[MoCarp]

Compare that with our "feral" carp.... granted in areas not BowFished (takes out the biggest fish) we can see some fish in the 20-30 pound range, usually fish in the 40" range ..these UK strains reach 20#.. 28-32" 

[Norm M]

my worry is that with the increased amount of and increasing severity of high water events is another non native fish escaping into our water ways .

 

 I recently went to a seminar about my local watershed . One of the real scary things were the presentations showing that the severity and increase of severe highwater events will increase thru 2090 . 

 

What kind of impact would these non natives have on our native fish ? 

[Quillback]

Yeah, I'd be a little concerned about introducing yet anther carp type fish.  Not only flooding, but bucket biologists might decide they want to put these fish in other waters.  But maybe there is more to this story.

[MoCarp]

8 hours ago, Norm M said:

What kind of impact would these non natives have on our native fish ? 

common carp "Cyprinus carpio" have been in Missouri waters since 1877 "the grant administration, these are the same fish just better genes, it is said these are not as reproductive as our naturalized common carp "Cyprinus carpio", these fish are VERY expensive, you won't see them "dumped" illegally.

8 hours ago, Quillback said:

Yeah, I'd be a little concerned about introducing yet anther carp type fish.  Not only flooding, but bucket biologists might decide they want to put these fish in other waters.  But maybe there is more to this story.

its interesting that people think if you remove all "rough fish" from a body of water it = more "game fish" that is like saying killing all the deer = more wolves, doesn't work that way...deer eat grass, wolves do not....bass, don't eat what carp or buffalo eat for that matter....if a  body of water is over run with carp...its a symptom of whats wrong not the cause, source point pollution, farm silt run off, .....over harvest of baby carp eaters, the places that produce monster carp usually have fantastic game fish populations, it goes hand in hand

[Quillback]

Well until you get something like Asian carp on the loose.  To me it's just not worth rolling the dice and introducing another carp species. 

[Norm M]

How about someone who sneaks in, catches and steals these fish , for their own profit. They put them in a pond that gets flooded and they escape to the wild . 

 They have better genes than the common carp you tell us . How do we know what effect these giant fish with better genes will have upon our native fish ?  Do their young grow rapidly to a size upon which they are beyond prey sized for natives , for one instance ? 

 I know that removing all the carp does not automatically increase the number of game species . There is however a carrying capacity of fish life that many bodies of water have .  If you increase something at one end of the scale , something else must give at the other end of the scale.

 There are many concerns with how the increasing grass carp population in Lake Erie is going to change that fishery . 

 I just think that a very through study of how accidental introduction into the wild on native species should be done before another non native species is deliberately introduced into our waters . 

 I am not anti carp, enjoy catching those that are already here . It's just that recent history with non native species getting loose or in the case of the Great Lakes being dumped with ballast water makes me very leery of adding any more deliberately . 

 

 

[MoCarp]

3 hours ago, Quillback said:

Well until you get something like Asian carp on the loose.  To me it's just not worth rolling the dice and introducing another carp species. 

Like I said its the SAME species, stocked on purpose 150 years ago, not "another" species

3 hours ago, Norm M said:

How about someone who sneaks in, catches and steals these fish , for their own profit. They put them in a pond that gets flooded and they escape to the wild . 

Its possible..... just like florida F1 bass getting loose in a lake, or a guy pen raising hybrid stripers in beaver that get loose

 

3 hours ago, Norm M said:

 They have better genes than the common carp you tell us . How do we know what effect these giant fish with better genes will have upon our native fish ?  Do their young grow rapidly to a size upon which they are beyond prey sized for natives , for one instance ? 

Theses fish get big the same way aunt martha gets 500 pounds.... eating the same things as Twiggy Jones does, they have a genetic trait that does that, ftom what I have read, if anything they produce less young than common carp already in say Tablerock, they are shaped different as they were bred for the table, with less scales for easy cleaning and deeper sides more meat to bone ratio.

 

3 hours ago, Norm M said:

I know that removing all the carp does not automatically increase the number of game species . There is however a carrying capacity of fish life that many bodies of water have .  If you increase something at one end of the scale , something else must give at the other end of the scale.

That is true, one study tracks a drop in Largemouth bass growth rates after common carp were removed from 500 acre lake..it seems that the carp spawned and the baby fry were munched on by the young of the year bass, after the removal bass growth slowed and recruitment was poorer, because the adults feed upon young of the year bass, funky development...wouldn't you say?

3 hours ago, Norm M said:

There are many concerns with how the increasing grass carp population in Lake Erie is going to change that fishery . 

Grass Carp (Ctenopharyngodon idella) are not the same critter, who knows what the result will be...zebra mussels made the water clearer and game fish populations soared (all the poop water the big cities pumped in them was great food for the little clams, the goby it seems has been a boom for the smallmouth populations...I remember in the 70's no one would take a trip to the great lakes except for salmon...fishing is better today than anyone could have predicted.

 

3 hours ago, Norm M said:

I just think that a very through study of how accidental introduction into the wild on native species should be done before another non native species is deliberately introduced into our waters . 

Rainbow & Brown trout are not native to Missouri yet people love catching them, These common carp where in our waters long before we had the dams that grace our state......, our native suckers and buffalo compete pretty well and baby carp get munched on by everything from crappie, bass catfish and muskies, flatheads etc....if the state desides to put them in a lake and limit harvest to produce trophy carp..they people will go there and spend money to fish for them, just like they go to Taney for trout or pomme for Muskies

 

3 hours ago, Norm M said:

 I am not anti carp, enjoy catching those that are already here . It's just that recent history with non native species getting loose or in the case of the Great Lakes being dumped with ballast water makes me very leery of adding any more deliberately . 

That was def not deliberate, but stocking florida non-native largemouth bass caused native fish and amphibian extinctions in California, yet has produced world record class fish...common carp are already in our waters and more and more people are euro style fishing for them, this was coming sooner than later to the USA just to much money to be made

[oneshot]

Interesting I grew up Paying to Carp Fish. Found it exciting and still do, just don't pay.

I also enjoy catching Buffalo and Suckers which are Native Fish and very Good Eating.

One of the last times I paid for fishing for Carp. 22 pounds.

oneshot

 

[MoCarp]

back in the day lots of people kept bass walleyes everything