Clear water

[Chief Grey Bear]

No not buying that for a minute.  If the water is big enough to float a jet boat on it it's more than warm enough for smallmouth. 

 You would have to be within 1 mile of a major spring, meaning  multiple thousands of gallons of flow per minute, to be too cold for smallmouth 

[MoCarp]

5 minutes ago, Chief Grey Bear said:

No not buying that for a minute.  If the water is big enough to float a jet boat on it it's more than warm enough for smallmouth. 

 You would have to be within 1 mile of a major spring, meaning  multiple thousands of gallons of flow per minute, to be too cold for smallmouth 

ever float the 1st 2 miles of spring river in SW Missouri ?......how many warm water fish did you catch? ...habitat is habitat.....bass will seek their most comfortable temps in a stretch of river..Trout supporting streams are cold

[Chief Grey Bear]

   I have fished almost every inch of spring river. 

 There are smallmouth and largemouth within a half mile of it boiling out of the ground. 

 It's not floatable but it darn sure is wadable.

[fishinwrench]

19 minutes ago, Chief Grey Bear said:

No not buying that for a minute.  If the water is big enough to float a jet boat on it it's more than warm enough for smallmouth. 

 You would have to be within 1 mile of a major spring, meaning  multiple thousands of gallons of flow per minute, to be too cold for smallmouth 

Well I don't know what to tell ya about that.   On the Niangua the best smallmouth water is above and below the trout zone.  NFOW is the same way.  Same with Roubidoux cr. and every other piece of water where I fish that has trout and Smallies both.     

Leave it to YOU to know of definite exceptions.    I have no answers.

[MoCarp]

16 minutes ago, Chief Grey Bear said:

   I have fished almost every inch of spring river. 

 There are smallmouth and largemouth within a half mile of it boiling out of the ground. 

 It's not floatable but it darn sure is wadable.

then you know what kind of areas you catch smallies then.....and even know the 2 feeder creeks with wild 'bows in them.....somewhere I have a pick of a 4# wild trout I caught and released....was built like the ones in crane.........not many smallies there ether

not saying that not bass are there...but its like catching smallmouths in the elk river arm of grand...happens but sure isn't common

[Chief Grey Bear]

3 hours ago, fishinwrench said:

Well I don't know what to tell ya about that.   On the Niangua the best smallmouth water is above and below the trout zone.  NFOW is the same way.  Same with Roubidoux cr. and every other piece of water where I fish that has trout and Smallies both.     

Leave it to YOU to know of definite exceptions.    I have no answers.

 Here is what we're going to do this summer. 

 We are going to hop in your jet and we're going to go to these waters  on the Niangua.  We're going to check temperatures.  And then we will see. 

[fishinwrench]

2 hours ago, Chief Grey Bear said:

 Here is what we're going to do this summer. 

 We are going to hop in your jet and we're going to go to these waters  on the Niangua.  We're going to check temperatures.  And then we will see. 

Sure.  I'll provide the boat if you'll pack us a killer lunch.

I don't know if it's a temperature thing or not but the good Smallmouth fishing always seems to be not in the middle of the best trout water.  Except for winter, so that makes me think it is probably a temperature thing.   

The only time you'll find Smallies in Bennett is during the Winter, you aren't likely to catch one in the spring branch during Summer.  Am I wrong?   Take 20 steps upstream from the confluence during Summer though and there's a bunch. Go the other direction downstream under the 64 bridge....No Smallies, or darn few until you get past Winchester gap, then it's smallmouth heaven from there on down and your surprised to catch the occasional trout. 

Is that not the way it is?  Somebody back me up here. 

[Al Agnew]

Meramec below Maramec Spring--practically zero smallmouth in the summer until you get to the first big pool below Cardiac and Suicide, about 4 miles downriver from the spring.  Numbers for the next 7 or 8 miles are far inferior to sections both above the spring and on downstream.  

Current below Montauk--pretty much zero smallies until you get around the mouth of a small warm water tributary a few miles below Baptist Camp.  Not many on downstream until you get past Cedargrove.  A marginal but sometimes decent population from Cedargrove to Welch Spring above Akers.  VERY few below Welch Spring for the next several miles.  You have to get past Pulltite to start finding them in numbers worth fishing for, and below Round Spring before the fishing really gets good.

Eleven Point below Greer Spring--not many for at least 10 miles, not a really good population for 20 miles.

North Fork below Rainbow Springs--hardly any until you get close to Dawt Mill, a long way downstream.

Jacks Fork below Alley Spring--even though it's not trout water, the smallmouth fishing is pretty poor until you get closer to Eminence.

They don't really appear in the Little Piney until you are well below the best trout water.

Yes, if you really want to work at targeting them, you can catch some smallmouth in the trout water, but compared to other sections, it just isn't hardly worth it.  Yes, they congregate around the spring mouths at nearly all the big springs in the winter.  But I suspect that the vast majority of those fish are summering upstream and moving down into the spring water for thermal refuge in the winter.  I doubt that many are living downstream and moving up into the warmer spring water in cold weather.  And even in the winter, you won't catch many EXCEPT in the first few good pools below the big springs, until you get below the influence of the spring water temperatures.

[joeD]

You guys talk about inches and pounds and catch rates and governmental regulations and otters and erosion and gravel mining and gigging and unscrupulous fisherpeople  and everything else that somehow prevents us fishermen from realizing our potential,  and our Ozark streams from producing both numbers and size of smallies , as if it is OUR FAULT that OUR STREAMS are somehow LESS than THEY COULD BE. 

Our streams are perfect. 

You have beauty in front of you. Quit complaining about what is wrong, and go fishing and show us what is right.

[Chief Grey Bear]

2 minutes ago, joeD said:

You guys talk about inches and pounds and catch rates and governmental regulations and otters and erosion and gravel mining and gigging and unscrupulous fisherpeople  and everything else that somehow prevents our Ozark streams from producing both numbers and size of smallies , as if it is OUR FAULT that OUR STREAMS are somehow LESS than THEY COULD BE. 

Our streams are perfect. 

You have beauty in front of you. Quit complaining about what is wrong, and go fishing and show us what is right.

You win the forum today Joe!