Can't Win

[mixermarkb]

Aside from the fact that Jackwagons wear both blue and red suits, I really blame this sort of nonsense on the media. There is no such thing as fair and balanced, fact based news media anymore, and whichever one you consume, makes either liberals or conservatives out to be something evil and unamerican.

Talking politics and debating ideas about the role of government shouldn't be a third rail that means instant death to a friendship. America has lasted just fine through both republican and democratic administrations. Good ideas and smart people  exist in both camps. The media (and political campaigns) make money from whipping us into a frenzy.

Us versus Them has always been an effective way to sell something. Sports rivals, Ford vs Chevy, Shimano vs Diawa or Bass Pro vs Lew's, Ranger vs Nitro, Bass vs Trout (or carp vs everything else) 

Everyone likes to feel part of something bigger than themselves. Marketing folks figured this out a long time ago, and the media has too. Us vs Them is a cheap way to get viewers, listeners, clicks and shares, and that is $$$$ in someone's pocket.

It's had the effect of amplifying the extreme ideas on either side, which I think most sane folks would say isn't healthy for our country. I wouldn't want to live in a country that was 100 percent the democratic socialist vision of the most liberal voices, and I wouldn't want to live in a country that was the Christian based theocracy that voices on the far right would like.

Balance, and treating others the way we would like to be treated, is the key. We became the greatest country in the world by becoming a melting pot. We have a history of trying ideas, keeping what works, and moving on from what doesn't. That process requires debate, and the media based political demonization of The Other Side, has killed that debate.

China, and other countries that don't have to deal with that pesky idea called democracy, are rapidly advancing on the world stage because we can't even have polite discussion about ideas, let alone come to an agreement on policy. The bickering HAS to stop. We have big issues to address to keep our position as the dominant power in the world, and while democracy is in my opinion the greatest form of government on the planet, it won't work if people feel like they are comproming with Satan himself to agree that someone from The Other Side actually had a good idea. 

[Guest]

i hear you loud and clear bill.  i have never been one to voice my stance on things and some have taken offense to that , but so be it.  i argue with my buddy knickmeyer all the time, but we are still friends and there is not anything that i would not do for him.

i also got a taste of bad union help while doing a show in chicago.  it cost us $250.00 dollars to have a feller come plug i electric cord in that was already laying on the floor.  the plug in was there under a lift up cover.  the cost of moving our stuff in was also out of this world, and that just left a very bad taste in this old country boy's mouth.  i will not ever be back unless i'm given a chance to rob them back😂.

that feller at your resort had a right to his opinion, but so did you.  

bo

 

[rps]

19 hours ago, motoman said:

My thoughts too m&m. Let’s counter that clowns trolling on those travel sites.

Those union folks know they’re dinosaurs going extinct. This kinda nonsense is their last ditch effort to cling to relevance. Folks at my wife’s work tried to unionize. But, the union folks intimidation and strong arm tactics did them in. Overwhelming majority of employees expressed the same disgust in their old world tactics. They’re their own worst enemies.🤦🏻‍♂️

Interesting point. However, here is something to think about.

When the uncontrolled laissez faire capitalism of the late 19th century and early 20th century created very powerful industry owners and very poor workers, the workers tried to change things. Riots occurred as owners tried to prevent union formation. Read about the Haymarket affair, the Pullman strike, and the Battle of Blair Mountain. Finally the creation of unions helped tame the extreme disparity of wealth.

In the last 20 years we have seen some of that same disparity of wealth develop and business owners use political actions to control workers. The pressure is building. While I agree that some current union practices can be abusive, I expect work force pressures will force the formation of new unions or changes in the existing ones.

Sorry to interrupt an interesting thread about the frequency of poor manners. I just thought I would put on my teacher face for a bit. Motoman, please rest assured the comment was meant as interesting discussion and not with ill will.

[motoman]

3 minutes ago, rps said:

Interesting point. However, here is something to think about.

When the uncontrolled laissez faire capitalism of the late 19th century and early 20th century created very powerful industry owners and very poor workers, the workers tried to change things. Riots occurred as owners tried to prevent union formation. Read about the Haymarket affair, the Pullman strike, and the Battle of Blair Mountain. Finally the creation of unions helped tame the extreme disparity of wealth.

In the last 20 years we have seen some of that same disparity of wealth develop and business owners use political actions to control workers. The pressure is building. While I agree that some current union practices can be abusive, I expect work force pressures will force the formation of new unions or changes in the existing ones.

Sorry to interrupt an interesting thread about the frequency of poor manners. I just thought I would put on my teacher face for a bit. Motoman, please rest assured the comment was meant as interesting discussion and not with ill will.

Oh, I’m with yah rps. There’s certainly a time and place for them.  And I don’t take your comments the wrong way, it’s all good.

-

But, the stunts Bill talked about that guest pulling; coupled with the games pulled at my wife’s work (and when their ‘representatives’ came to our home uninvited to ‘talk’ with my wife about joining......and wouldn’t leave until she threatened to call the police) has me a bit jaded. I’ve got plenty of other poor  direct/indirect interactions over the years of similar dealings; so it’s tough to be impartial on this one.:-(

[Mitch f]

At MCD, in order to make seniority rule, we had union classifications converge. They converged  skilled trades with lesser skilled trades. Now the higher seniority riveter was staying as the higher skilled toolmaker was getting laid off...all in an attempt to be “equal” and fair. 

Equality is a failed notion, when trying to make things equal, someone else always gets the royal shaft. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Mitch f said:

At MCD, in order to make seniority rule, we had union classifications converge. They converged  skilled trades with lesser skilled trades. Now the higher seniority riveter was staying as the higher skilled toolmaker was getting laid off...all in an attempt to be “equal” and fair. 

Equality is a failed notion, when trying to make things equal, someone else always gets the royal shaft. 

yep, mitch.  the workers that produce the most deserve to be paid the most.  i do not see flunky professional ball players getting paid the same as the best players.  oh, wait a minute, they are union.  guess the flunkies need to strike for "EQUAL" wages.

anyone that has a desire to do better has the same right as the next person, and that is to outproduce.  want to get paid the same for doing nothing?  you need to go someplace else.  nothing is free, and there will always be someone that is the best at anything.  you should not to be jealous of them or covet what they have.  seems as though that is in the scriptures somewhere.

bo

[mixermarkb]

I mostly agree with Mitch and Bo, but the liberal in me would have to point out there is a big difference between "equal" and a level playing field, where the rules are the same for everyone.

Of course, equality is a false notion, because everyone has different God given gifts, and different work ethics on how to use those gifts. I believe we who have been blessed with more, have the resources and responsibility to help others excel. It's best done in each of our day to day lives with folks who cross our paths, but the sad fact is that humans inherintly battle greed, and there is often more need than charity.

Sometimes we have to have government, public and private education, unions, churches, charitable organizations, etc.. step in and work to make sure that anyone who wants a chance to play the game, has that chance.

We are our brothers keeper, and since a lot of folks abdicate that responsibility in their day to day lives by refusing to treat others the way they would like to be treated themselves, sometimes less than perfect means have to be adopted to get to a reasonable end, and have a society we can be proud of.

 

(And that's why I have had two extra kids at my house most of the summer, because my wife and I have a little extra, and we have relatives who are more interested in chasing a buzz than chasing a paycheck. Hopefully we can impart something to the kids that will stick and help them break the cycle. It's inconvenient, but oh well. We all may not be equal, but we all matter.)