need help picking out a new fly rod

[Mitch f]

19 minutes ago, snagged in outlet 3 said:

Wrench is right.  I have the old pattern sheet somewhere.   I grew up by Ed’s original shop on the Rock Road back in the late 60’s early 70’s.  Ed was a family friend and my dad hung out and fished with Ed a lot.  And I was lucky enough to go sometimes too.  We went to the shop as Cub Scouts for fly tying lessons.    It’s always been turkey rounds as far as I remember.   If I’m lazy I have left the peacock hurl off though.  

You grew up by St. Charles Rock Road?

[snagged in outlet 3]

2 minutes ago, Mitch f said:

You guy up by St. Charles Rock Road?

I assume you mean grew up.  Yep.  In St Ann

[Mitch f]

6 minutes ago, snagged in outlet 3 said:

I assume you mean grew up.  Yep.  In St Ann

Fixed it

[tjm]

10 hours ago, fishinwrench said:

I know y'all are gonna blast me for this.....But that video ain't right.  🤷‍♂️ 

I don't even think the originator even realized what he had done.... before he began having his brother & hired hands tie them commercially.   

#1. The hackle is not supposed to be stripped before tying in.......You just slap it on there, barbs and all......This creates a bit of tail.  And hackle should be sized 1.5x the hook gap.

#2. Herl is tied in by the butts, 3 of them, and twisted before folding forward so they are bound together, and the fuzz doesn't lay backwards.  

#3. Hackle is not simply palmered forward 5 turns.   You take one full turn.....then palmer 3 turns....then take one full turn before tying off.   

To anyone that says none of that matters.....I guarantee I can stand right next to you and outfish you, anytime/anywhere that fish are eating Cracklebacks.   

Thanks for that reply, I've made a note and plan to try that in my next tying session, whenever that is.

 I just watched the video again and did not see where he striped the  hackle other than the part under the tie  in. I'm not following how those butt barbs bound down under the body could create a tail of any sort. But I'll mess around on the vise with that.

It looks to me like he did tie the herl in by the butts, but three twisted would certainly be an improvement over two laying flat.  I never have bought the two color back and belly theory a pertains to insects after experiments I did a long time ago, and  I know it's a popular belief in imitative tying, but to me the Crackleback isn't imitative so much as suggestive.  But I'm sure he did it on purpose and likely for that reason after thinking about it. I think most of the Cracklebacks that I have seen were dubbed bodies with brown rather than furnace hackle. 

I like your hackling method better  than some of the over crowded examples that I've seen, but I'm not too precise on barb length on my palmers, gape size to tow gape size all seem to catch the odd fish. And I never count wraps on palmers either, just make them have a spacing that I like, using  the same number of turns on a #16 as on #12 doesn't seem like it would  have the flotation or underwater dynamics.

So, since some of y'all knew Mr. Story, was that him in the video? and if  it was do you wonder why he made one pattern sheet for the scouts and a different one for the shop?

 

[snagged in outlet 3]

1 hour ago, tjm said:

Thanks for that reply, I've made a note and plan to try that in my next tying session, whenever that is.

 I just watched the video again and did not see where he striped the  hackle other than the part under the tie  in. I'm not following how those butt barbs bound down under the body could create a tail of any sort. But I'll mess around on the vise with that.

It looks to me like he did tie the herl in by the butts, but three twisted would certainly be an improvement over two laying flat.  I never have bought the two color back and belly theory a pertains to insects after experiments I did a long time ago, and  I know it's a popular belief in imitative tying, but to me the Crackleback isn't imitative so much as suggestive.  But I'm sure he did it on purpose and likely for that reason after thinking about it. I think most of the Cracklebacks that I have seen were dubbed bodies with brown rather than furnace hackle. 

I like your hackling method better  than some of the over crowded examples that I've seen, but I'm not too precise on barb length on my palmers, gape size to tow gape size all seem to catch the odd fish. And I never count wraps on palmers either, just make them have a spacing that I like, using  the same number of turns on a #16 as on #12 doesn't seem like it would  have the flotation or underwater dynamics.

So, since some of y'all knew Mr. Story, was that him in the video? and if  it was do you wonder why he made one pattern sheet for the scouts and a different one for the shop?

 

That’s him.   If you lay the furnace hackle on the side of the hook nearest you, with the inside of the hackle facing you, when you pull it up to Palmer, it a few barbs stick out the back for a tail.   The pattern sheet wasn’t specific to the cubs, it’s just the one I have from decades ago.  

[tjm]

But the instructions he gives there are at odds with what he taught you kids? 

[fishinwrench]

18 minutes ago, tjm said:

But the instructions he gives there are at odds with what he taught you kids? 

Like I alluded to earlier......I don't think he (himself) knew exactly what he had done when he first started tying the fly.    

Wiser fishermen than him figured it out though......and made the fly what it TRULY is, or CAN BE.   

That actually happens a lot in fly design.  Without Lefty Krey & Flip Pallet the Clouser Minnow wouldn't be the fly it is today.....and  nobody would even know who Bob Clouser is.   None of his other "creations" are worth a hoot.  Are they? 

[tjm]

I don't know much about Clouser or Pallet, met Kreh at a show once and he was a great showman but less than 9' tall. Clouser's Minnow the way he ties them are heavier than I like to fish, but I do tie a few with bead chain, just enough weight to invert the hook. Have you used Clouser Minnow for trout at all? 

The first time I saw a Crackleback it put me in mind of Tom Nixon's .56%er, a fly that I used to use a lot. When I was reading up on it one source said that Story was copying another wet fly that was popular there at the time, but never named the other fly, and I've wondered since then what the other popular palmer was in 1952?

It is certainty that any pattern tied by three different tyers will be three different flies.

[fishinwrench]

1 hour ago, tjm said:

Have you used Clouser Minnow for trout at all? 

I have..... Unsuccessfully. 🤷‍♂️

By all rights it should work GREAT.   Especially in places like Taneycomo.  Somebody needs to unlock the code there.  

I haven't been very successful with Clousers on Smallies either, which is totally absurd because that's the fish that initially made that fly famous in the Eastern U.S. 

[snagged in outlet 3]

35 minutes ago, fishinwrench said:

I have..... Unsuccessfully. 🤷‍♂️

By all rights it should work GREAT.   Especially in places like Taneycomo.  Somebody needs to unlock the code there.  

I haven't been very successful with Clousers on Smallies either, which is totally absurd because that's the fish that initially made that fly famous in the Eastern U.S. 

to me it’s a saltwater fly🤷‍♂️