Revisions for Big River in the new edition of the Paddler's Guide...

[tjm]

1 hour ago, Terrierman said:

Last I looked it said 2024?  And yup, there is such a thing as a landmark,

But someone did put mileage marks on those maps you used 40 years ago? and they were accurate by your measure? 

[tjm]

3 hours ago, Flysmallie said:

And that’s how you measure the river.

Actually that's how you measure the map, and when we do this we are trusting that the map has some accuracy in both the drawing of it and the reproduction of it, as well as in the onsite measuring of it. Most maps started off with a land surveyor using a theodolite and a "chain". 

[jdmidwest]

Somebody woke up on this one.

Cell phone coverage sucks on most of the streams, I use offline maps for navigation on the cell phone with a GPS and maps to figure things out.  But, MO rivers change and distances change.  I know of 2  rivers within  20 miles that have opened up new / old channels during floods that have cut a mile off of the trip.  GPS and Offline maps don't show it, not quick enough on updates, but I can find out where I am based on GPS signal.

[jdmidwest]

8 hours ago, WestCentralFisher said:

On a canoeing centric Facebook group I'm a part of, I always see the "just leave the phone in the car" posts. Worth noting the only time I followed that advice, my phone overheated and never turned on again. I probably could have protected it better. But combined with people smashing windows from time to time, I'd rather take my chances with a dry box tied to the canoe. 

Airplane mode when there is no signal or off.  That keeps it from overheating. 

I toss mine next to my truck gun in cover to keep crackheads from breaking winders.  Cover up the change in the console too, they go after it too.

[tjm]

27 minutes ago, jdmidwest said:

I can find out where I am based on GPS signal.

does that location come in miles from a start point or is it in global coordinates?

[fishinwrench]

2 hours ago, tjm said:

Thanks Al. So you brung the aerial photos and and the rough drawn map both with you in the canoe? slide rule calculations or computer?

Listen here MoCarp,   you asked how they figured river miles in the 1960's  🙄  Before high resolution satellite imagery (Google Earth).  

They knew the width of the river, and the length of all the bridges.  Knowing THAT.....Having an aerial photo of a winding section of river, a ruler, and some decent math skills......It can be figured out fairly accurately.  

Don't ya think?

[jdmidwest]

10 hours ago, tjm said:

does that location come in miles from a start point or is it in global coordinates?

I run a route trail on gps, but I never keep track of distance.  It's on one of the screens.

I use my point on either a topo/road map that Garmin (which was originally Delorme) produces or USGS topo that is downloaded into program.  Forestry service trails are on there too.

 

[jdmidwest]

https://explore.garmin.com/

[tjm]

11 hours ago, fishinwrench said:

Listen here MoCarp,   you asked how they figured river miles in the 1960's  🙄  Before high resolution satellite imagery (Google Earth).  

They knew the width of the river, and the length of all the bridges.  Knowing THAT.....Having an aerial photo of a winding section of river, a ruler, and some decent math skills......It can be figured out fairly accurately.  

Don't ya think?

Sure they could do that without ever getting a boat wet. Which begs the question of why did they even ask someone to float all those streams. But in truth and honesty,  I asked Al how he measured the stream miles, not how they might have done it, and all these pages later are the result people who weren't there  wanting to guess how  Al did it. My other questions arose to determine if those others had been there or had actual experience in map making. It's kinda like someone asking fishinwrench how he would adjust the carb on a two cycle boat motor and everybody on the site responding that wrench used a screwdriver, a stethoscope, a stopwatch and a piece of string,  and got his instructions from a smart phone. Entertaining answers but having nothing to do with the question asked.

And it really doesn't matter because we have to use the bridges or public accesses to put in and to take out regardless of how far apart they are  and miles traveled in an hour or in a day will vary with stream current, paddle size, user ability, type of boat  and even the wind speed and direction; and those bridges will show up when you get there. The mileage is immaterial and the inquiry  just a curiosity on my part; I found it odd that they marked mileage on such maps as being accurate to  within 200 yards with the various changes streams make after every rain, and also found my estimate and their "measurement" weren't always in agreement. I've been curious about their methods for years and thought the guy doing the map might have knowledge of his methods, both now and 20-40 years ago. Many of the local accesses listed in my  guide have been closed to the public for years, prompting the question of did MDC revise all the streams. 

[Terrierman]

14 hours ago, tjm said:

But someone did put mileage marks on those maps you used 40 years ago? and they were accurate by your measure? 

40 years ago they used aerial photos and a planimeter.  And yes they were accurate.  And I trust the world is indeed round, appearance from a canoe notwithstanding.