tjm

"Some individuals may migrate more than 180 miles within a year while others may stay within the same 1.8-mile reach of the river. Cool temperatures and high flows trigger the migration. " It doesn't say it but those huge annual migrations up the Mississippi and Missouri Rivers used to be a major part of pioneer food gathering. A harvest that people relied on. I suspect that much of that migration is limited by dams and locks. probably also why they aren't doing as well as they did a hundred years or so ago. Apparently they need 53F rocky fast flowing water about two feet deep as a spawning place; so all those fish that used to range from the Gulf to the headwaters of the Miss., Mo., Arkansas rivers can't make those migrations any longer. In Mo. the MDC doesn't even list them in the list of Suckers on their web page yet they maintain records since the "The new “alternative method” record fish snagged by Rackers on April 21 weighed 9 pounds, 1 ounce with a length of 30 inches." from the Osage. I think that in general fish and game authorities across the USA ignore the management of non-game wildlife in favor of the money species. Suckers as a group are the most "American" of all fish, perhaps, since of 80 species worldwide all but two live only in N.America.

We crossed the country to the east coast several times with kids and fed them from local grocery stores for a lot cheaper than the average vacationer, slept them in tents too, and I wouldn't have bought them NR licenses in any of the states that we visited, by the same token I would not be paying a guide to take me fishing nor staying in a resort. Average numbers take the lows with the highs, so for every tent traveler there must be a resort traveler paying even more than the averages indicate. I'm using 70 year old fly rods, would never pay more than $150 for any rod, but I know that people are buying production plastic rods for over $1000 and the bamboo guys are spending $4-5000 for production rods. We all have our spending limits, and that NR tag may deter some, but if they have a resort, a guide and $150 fly line in the budget the price shouldn't even get a blink. He's a lot more experienced now.

I was told once, but never followed up to be sure, that the Mo. resident lifetime permits weren't valid if you moved out of state. Now I wonder if residency is required or if it really means lifetime.

Yeah, I understand that @Ham A long time ago I was keeping an Ar, license with trout all the time at around $25 total and fished the Beaver tailwater several times each year, along with many small streams in Benton county. Then one year Ar bumped the NR with trout price up to about $50 and I said "I'll not buy a license until we camp down there" and soon enough 15-20 years passed without me buying an Ar license, by that time it was up to $80. During those years I drove a lot more miles to fish in Mo. than I would have to have fished near my work in Ar. But by golly I showed the AGFC.

I never could get the lifetime things to pencil out for anyone over 15, unless they use every permit sold every year. So far south as I am, we rarely see waterfowl except in flight. It takes a really cold winter to bring ducks to the creeks. I can't recall the last time. So, use of the migratory stuff is sporadic, but i still would have bought the life permit just for convenience except that I still had to buy the trapping permit every year. Glad they worked out for you.

Yeah it would be good for the tourists if Mo. had a week or ten day permit, back when our son lived in Fl and visited, he'd have to figure what was cheaper- several daily tags or one annual. Nearly always used at RRSP because of time constraints. Of course none of the states want to encourage "Fish Tourism" or they'd all have reduced fees rather than elevated fees.

Are the genetics so different that we can say how long ago that they evolved?

Rock bass may be indicative of a stream's health but I wouldn't say that lack of rock bass is indicative of the stream not being healthy. They are kinda like brown trout, you find them where they are. If you look at USGS map of where rockbass were indigenous, it sure looks like most of them in Mo. have been relocated or their range has expanded over time. It doesn't really show them in the Ozarks prior to WW2, but of course they say that their information may not be accurate as to time of spread. However, expanding range whether moved by man or naturally does explain why some streams have them and some don't. I was told many years ago by a guy that worked at a hatchery there, that Arkansas had stocked goggle eye in the Sugar Creeks (Elk/Neosho) in the '50s. I presumed from the hatchery location that they may have been taken from the White. But, I've also read someplace that there is some doubt that Ar. had any rock bass originally, so without hatchery records, for all that I can tell, all the goggle eye may have been imported from NY or IL or ? Lots of fish got moved around back in the 1880s and since.

Kids don't need fishing license. They do need daily tags in Parks and I believe they need Trout Permit on Taneycomo. Anyone bringing a family interstate (definition of NR) to a fishing destination for vacation already has $thousands invested in travel and accommodation prior to or whether they fish. Cost to feed each kid every day at even cheap restaurants must be higher than the the cost of fishing permits for 365 days. $100 today is nothing, it buys about what $8-12 used to buy. A little wander around the internet indicates a USA vacation this yea will run about $700-$2000 per person this before they hire the $100/hour + tip trout guide. I really can't see this new permit keeping anyone from traveling here that really wants to fish Taneycomo. Out of curiosity I looked up costs of NR licensing in some other trout states; Alaska $100 (+$100 K.Salmon) Arkansas $60 + $20 trout = $80 California $166.89 Colorado $111.03 Idaho $108 + $10 access = $118 Michigan $76.00 Minnesota $51 + $10 = $61 Montana $100 + $7.50 cons. + $10 AISPP = $117.50 New Mexico $56 + $10 + $4 = $70 New York $50 Oregon $110.50 + $66.00 steelhead = $176.50 Pennsylvania $60.97 + $14.97 = $75.94 Utah $120 Washington $115.85 Wisconsin $50 + $10 = $60 Wyoming $102 * $21.50 cons. = $123.50 Mo. $57 + $40 = $97 doesn't seem out of line by that much.

They are required for all fishing year-round in Lake Taneycomo upstream from U.S. Highway 65 bridge. Which is likely why Phil sees this as more detrimental to Taneycomo than to the rest of us. And most people that I see fishing the White Ribbon streams are keeping trout, so they'd all need them, but not so likely to be NR that I see keeping them. That ambiguous rule that says the trout permit is only needed to possess trout is why I think it should be abandoned and made part of the regular fishing permit, spread the cost to all anglers at very little increase per license. I doubt that the trout stamp money is kept separate and only used for trout anyway. Special permits are just a way to justify office workers, making and keeping track of special permits.

Did they change the law or just the vendor stopped doing the enforcing? because it says on MDC site

Not all of those buy trout tags or stamps, but I'd guess that most of them are fishing the trout parks. I think the NR have paid the same as Residents for the annual Trout Permit in the past so that increase is only $28. Of the 165,000 how many do you guess fish Taneycomo? The few times that I fished RR C&R most of the people that I talked to were from OK, AR, & KS. I don't know if that is typical or not and I've talked to probably a dozen or so that were fishing Hickory Creek from OK & KS over a few years, and that's not much of a trout stream. By the same token I don't know of anyone that fishes Tanecomo, resident or non resident. And all those thousands that come from out of state to fish the trout parks in the summer months have to buy a NR fishing permit before they can buy a daily tag. If the increase hurts any of the fishing use it might hurt the KS & TX folks that crowd the parks during the summer, given that they have invested in a trip for that purpose, I doubt that the increase will deter them. Think about AK fishing, if the cost of the trip there went up a $100 would it stop you going again? Yep need the annual trout stamp, and they also need the fishing permit, so for a single day $49 or several days, or with intent to fish the summer months as well, the whole $97 an increase of $43.50 and this C&R is where MDC might lose revenue on day trippers from OK and KS that are too far away for frequent visits. Most of the Arkies I've met at RR were local enough that several visits would be normal. But I'll agree with wrench in that anyone who balks at the increase wasn't very committed to fishing anyway. If the total trip cost went up by $100 or $500 for combined costs or travel, rooms, meals and permits, and of course guides and tips, anyone really wanting to fish at any destination would still make the trip.

The permit is not specifically for Tanecomo, is it? It's state wide and annual if I read it correctly, lets those out-of-staters/foreigners fish Crane for example. What might work better would be to boost the price of the NR daily permit to $20 and include trout with that. IIRC, OK NR is $81 (trout included) and AR NR with trout is $80 (have been for years and I think both charged me a processing fee on top of that) and neither state has the kind of trout fishing found in our several small streams. So this would pass them on an annual basis by $17, but I'd expect the other states to also raise their NR tags in the near future, so probably not too out of line. I just looked up CO. permits and it looks like it'd cost me $132.47 there so the three local states are still cheap. I doubt that the price of a good meal or a tank of gas (1/2 tank?) will adversely affect the number of NR anglers that show up on Taneycomo. Personally I think the trout permit should be eliminated statewide and it be combined with the fishing permit, of course that would raise the cost of the fishing permit for those that don't fish trout (and lower it for those that do), but it would lower the MDC costs of keeping records of multiple permits and simplify things. As it stands the only place I need a trout permit really is for C&R in the Parks, can fish for them in all the streams without it as long as I don't keep them. Those hatcheries provide fish for lots more than the parks, all the trout areas in the state (except Taneycomo? isn't that on the Feds as restitution?) and all the urban winter trout fishing come out of those few MDC hatcheries. The Parks belong to DNR and as such have no hatcheries, they just get stocked by the MDC hatcheries located there (or by other MDC sources, as I think they purchased trout when R.R. was shut down)

I think crawdads are a lot more common than hellgrammites in the creeks that I fish, but a marabou jig is an awfully good bait that might look like either.

I'll bet you can't hook a bat. I've seen them avoid a fly/fly line in the air dozens of times. The smaller casting lines may not have enough echo for them to avoid, idk, but there is no open season on them so the limit is 0. Long time ago the guy I used to fish with came in one morning telling me that an owl had snatched his plug in midair the evening before and took a lot of line before it broke off. He said it swooped and grabbed at the lure, so maybe lures sound like birds in flight? We wondered if the hooks got the owl or if it just held the lure while flying off.

Ever use them to shoot rats inside a building? I don't know, but I read that that is why it's called rat shot. I also read that it was the way that performers used to shoot playing cards for audiences. Think Annie Oakley was mentioned. Back in the '60s we had a neighbor that killed hundreds of quail with a .22 revolver and shot. Shot them on the ground as they used the dirt roads or when they were on fences. Years after he'd passed I mentioned watching him shoot birds with that revolver to his son, and was told that he'd leaded the barrel to where it looked like a smooth bore.

As a kid I used to find bats under the overhanging bluffs in this area and they were just another critter to catch, like a furry grasshopper. When back east there was a particular mill pond on a trout stream that had a huge bat population nearby and I've spent many evenings with bats flying inches from me as I fly fished into the dark when a hatch was on. One house we lived in had bats get inside a few times and I removed them. I've probably handled a dozen or so over the years. Never ever saw any aggressive behavior from a bat, although they don't like being held, so yeah if one seems to assault you, it's best to presume it's rabid. The vaccine only needs two injections if you haven't been exposed and and a booster whenever your blood titer indicates, so for people that might commonly come into contact with wild animals it's not a bad idea to get dosed before getting bit. Or even licked or other contact with saliva.

There must be a dozen companies selling roof rack "vaults" that will carry 2 or 4 fully rigged fly rods up to at least 10', so surely someone must sell such for casting rods. Or there are online DIY for similar things made from PVC pipes. And as I was reading the post above referring to the boat "rod locker" it occurred to me that a rod locker that mounts on a boat must also be capable of mounting on a roof rack/ladder rack.

I'm not a rod builder as such but have built and repaired a few in years past, so ... Before about 1962 all the plastic rod blanks were rolled as one piece and then cut into two, three or more pieces and fitted with ferrules for ease of transportation, in '62 Fenwick patented the "tip over butt" Feralite joint that is common today and from then on they produced rods in pieces designed to fit without ferrules, but still sold some one piece blanks and others continued to use one piece blanks into the '80s. So yes long one piece rods can be cut and ferruled, either with metal ferrules as used on bamboo and early fiberglass rods or with sleeves or spigots as came into use in the late '60s before Fenwick's "tip over butt" patent expired and all manufacturers turned to using that method in the '80s. What you will find is that the ferrules regardless of type, create a bit of a stiff spot in the rod. If you chose one piece rods for a perceived gain in sensitivity, I doubt that you would like them after being remodeled. A spigot probably affects the action less than metal ferrules or a sleeve but probably requires removal of the grip and/or reel seat to access the interior of the butt section for fitting and installation of the spigot, and reinstallation of them after, so somewhat of a time consuming chore. I have no idea what a rod builder might charge for the work, but I imagine selling those rods and buying suitable rods might be more economical. I'll also add that blanks designed to be cut and ferruled had reinforcing "flags" rolled into the blanks and that a thin walled graphite rod might break just next to the ferrule/spigot at a latter date. I've had fly rods repaired by inserting a spigot that functioned for a few years then broke at the end of the spigot. A "ladder rack" with some type of rod carrier might make you happier. Search "rod vault"

I used to take a lot of them back east, called them "hornpout", so not what would be in Lake Springfield, but they were good tasting white flesh and while I never weighed them, I'd guess the ones we ate between 1.5 and 3 pounds. With generous limits it's easy to make meal. The best bait was nightcrawlers threaded on monofilament with no hook as they would hold onto that ball of worm until touched against boat or bucket and then spit it out. If using hooks it was best to us a #10 snelled hook with a snap swivel and replace the hook with each catch, recovering the snell and hook when cleaning the fish. On fly rod the best fly would likely be a black or brown leech, I took some on an all black woolly bugger twitched slowly on the pond bottom in about 3' of water. 50 years ago they fairly popular in that area. In one small trout lake the hornpout hatch in a particular cove would draw trout from the entire lake. The only Mo. population that I've fished is in Big Sugar Creek where I spent a few hours casting weighted flies into their nests and practicing C&R, I discovered that during their spawn they apparently don't eat, as they would only pick up fly to remove it from a nest. Those were Black Bullheads native to most of Mo. and in that creek averaged <1lb. But, there were locals there that feasted on them. On average I think that any bullhead will have more meat than a trout or bass of equal length, but, that's just my thoughts about how thick the ones I caught were in comparison. In a pond situation, I'd rig multiple rod/reels with bobbers and snap swivels with snelled hooks and worm baits, setting the baits near the bottom. You do want to be very careful of those very sharp spines, they are painful and seem to cause lingering soreness.

The green is where MDC says SMB live. That streak along the Mississippi from the Missouri River north is all outside what is normally considered the Ozarks. They need to revise that map though to show that SMB don't live in the Neosho/Grand drainage. Probably the Mo. river could be considered the northern edge of the Ozarks, even though there isn't a lot of agreement on what/where the Ozarks is.

He also said that the banks didn't lose anything because the money was insured and it helped the insurance people sell more insurance. Everybody was a winner. Of course the economy that he was helping most was in Mexico where he'd live between jobs. Whip poor wills are ground nesting birds and decline with any increase of egg eaters. But the egg eaters go through cycles too, for example a run of distemper can nearly wipe out a raccoon population, because they frequently move from den to den and share dens so a single carrier can rapidly share it's disease with dozens who then share with others. And when the 'coon population bottoms out the birds have one less problem. Starlings and English Sparrows are both invasive species and therefore are legal to kill by almost any means. A borax solution wash should kill any mites and their eggs. I'd probably just skin and scrape then pin the pelt out in a card board box and cover the pelt thoroughly with borax powder, it's a good desiccant to dry the skin as well as an insecticide. I tend to keep a little borax with all my fly tying furs and feathers.

I don't know that it's wrong, just criminal, even if the laws aren't often enforced. And in this country felons can vote in some states and even serve in federal office, so I guess most citizens don't consider being criminal as being wrong. Wrong and right probably need to be judged on a moral or religious scale. But it is kinda like justifying rape because of the clothes someone wore. I used to know a former bank robber who justified his work by saying that all that money laying in vaults wasn't doing anything and that his spending it helped the economy.

$15,000 fine & 6 months jail under Federal law. Which officer of the HOA does the time?

starlings are legal to kill any where any time in USA, grackles are not.