Mdc Enforcement Issues

[exiledguide]

I don't doubt any of it! 10 years ago or more a bunch of Arkansas conservation people were busted for using live trout for stripers... I know this stuff goes on.

I have to question that. As I remember it was a well known striper guide who was caught and ticketed for using trout for bait on Lake Ouachita by the AFG and a local prosecutor and judge agreed to a slap on the wrist penalty. Small fine and no loss of guiding license. I could be wrong but thats what I remember. There also was the sting where trout fishing guides were caught by agents the AFG brought in undercover agents from other states and the local prosecuter refused to bring charges against the guides who were caught. Also the Bassmaster or FLW tournament On Lake Ouachita where one of the contestants tried to weigh in an ilegal slot limit fish and the AGF wouldn't cite him because he was from out of stae. In Arkansas if you have money or influance you can get away with anything.

[fishinwrench]

What ever become of that poor basturd that sold some spoonbill eggs ? Man they hammered him ! If he got sentenced as hard as they were threatening to, he basically lost his life. That was a tad excessive.

[Outside Bend]

The 1.5 million dollar book deal is bogus. I checked.

Contrary to Mr. Dablemont's position, there is public oversight of MDC, and they are routinely audited- one of the most audited agencies in the state.

http://www.auditor.m...ss/2011-120.htm

And it says :

"MDC agreed to pay a retired former employee at least $155,000 to write a book about Missouri rivers and streams. The MDC did not solicit bids or document its reasons for this sole source procurement."

I doubt newspapers pass on Dablemont's articles because they're critical of MDC. More likely, they pass on them because they're not accurate. If Dablemont wants to go after the MDC it's his right- but he should get his facts straight, first.

[Dan Kreher]

As Conservation Chairman for the Missouri Smallmouth Alliance, I am reluctant to even comment here regarding the Chief's "concers" with MSA. And, I'm not inviting an online dialogue here on that topic - necessarily.

I do want to clarify MSA's position regarding our slate of stream SMB management proposals submitted to the MDC's Regulations Committee in early 2010.

As formulated, we believe that our suggested three-pronged approach to managing stream SMB fisheries for overall quality are biologically sound and appropriate for those streams outlined. Specifically our group's proposals are as follows:

- Increase statewide mimimum length for SMB in all MO streams to 15 inches; decrease statewide creel limit to 3 SMB per day

- Increase the number and length of SMB Special Regs waters managed under the 15"/1 fish creel regulations now used on 10 stream sections in Ozarks (9 new stream sections suggested)

- Increase the number and length of SMB Special Regs waters managed under the 18"/1 fish creel regulations now used on 2 stream sections in Ozarks (4 new stream sections suggested)

Our proposals match closely the manner in which Missouri's streams are managed for smallmouth bass already which provide sustainable angling for stream smallies in good numbers generally but, we believe, fall short of their potential in terms of average sizes and the number of larger fish available. More detailed information concerning our proposals are available on the MSA website (www.missourismallmouthalliance.org).

We submitted our proposals in the interest of conducting a more intensified conversation with the MDC regarding the management of our streams for overall quality, e.g. improved proportional stock densities of larger fish leading to angler catch of better averaged sized smallies. Would other proposed regulations changes achieve a similar objective? Could other streams have been proposed to receive special regs? Could we have encouraged the MDC to treat the Neosho subspecies of SMB separately? Could we have suggested protected slot limits for certain fisheries? Yes, yes, yes and yes. Our goal was not to present the be-all-end-all regs for Ozark stream smallmouth regulations. We simply structured our proposals in a manner to closely match the slate of biologically-based regulations regime already in place for our state. We just wanted to raise the bar to improve quality on a more widespread basis. We believe that our actions certainly got the conversation going within the MDC ranks again after seemingly several years of complacency.

One tangible upshot of our proposals, we believe, was the MDC's decision to construct and circulate a comprehensive angler survey of our state's avid stream smallmouth and goggle eye anglers to determine their practices and opinions on certain management issues. We feel that this survey will be a great tool with which the MDC can then structure and institute potential managment changes for these species going forward.

We anxiously await the release of those survey results to be discussed at our upcoming meeting this week with the MDC (see Ozark Anglers home page for info).

Do we want the MDC to adopt our suggested managment changes hook, line and sinker? You bet. Unfortunately, this is not how regulations get enacted in our state. Once we learn the angler survey results, MSA will re-invigorate our activities with respect to our submitted proposals. Our organization remains quite committed to our cause to Create World Class Smallmouth Fishing in Missouri and is equally committed to work closely with the MDC in achieving this long-term objective for the benefit of all avid sporting bronzeback fans in the state.

I invite all those interested in this same object to participtate as part of our organization. We will get a lot more accomplished together than as individuals.

[Idylwilde]

I wish that the same kind of thing could go through on the Brown Trout State Wide. (limit 1 20") Unfortunately the brown trout don't have the support the anglers as the Smallmouth. And when told the MDC say they see no problem. But we lost an abundance of the trophy browns this year and we will every year that they migrate into open un-restricted waters. But until a commissioner of MDC is on board that likes to trophy brown fish it's a pipe dream to get it changed. Just saying.

[Smalliebigs]

As Conservation Chairman for the Missouri Smallmouth Alliance, I am reluctant to even comment here regarding the Chief's "concers" with MSA. And, I'm not inviting an online dialogue here on that topic - necessarily.

I do want to clarify MSA's position regarding our slate of stream SMB management proposals submitted to the MDC's Regulations Committee in early 2010.

As formulated, we believe that our suggested three-pronged approach to managing stream SMB fisheries for overall quality are biologically sound and appropriate for those streams outlined. Specifically our group's proposals are as follows:

- Increase statewide mimimum length for SMB in all MO streams to 15 inches; decrease statewide creel limit to 3 SMB per day

- Increase the number and length of SMB Special Regs waters managed under the 15"/1 fish creel regulations now used on 10 stream sections in Ozarks (9 new stream sections suggested)

- Increase the number and length of SMB Special Regs waters managed under the 18"/1 fish creel regulations now used on 2 stream sections in Ozarks (4 new stream sections suggested)

Our proposals match closely the manner in which Missouri's streams are managed for smallmouth bass already which provide sustainable angling for stream smallies in good numbers generally but, we believe, fall short of their potential in terms of average sizes and the number of larger fish available. More detailed information concerning our proposals are available on the MSA website (www.missourismallmouthalliance.org).

We submitted our proposals in the interest of conducting a more intensified conversation with the MDC regarding the management of our streams for overall quality, e.g. improved proportional stock densities of larger fish leading to angler catch of better averaged sized smallies. Would other proposed regulations changes achieve a similar objective? Could other streams have been proposed to receive special regs? Could we have encouraged the MDC to treat the Neosho subspecies of SMB separately? Could we have suggested protected slot limits for certain fisheries? Yes, yes, yes and yes. Our goal was not to present the be-all-end-all regs for Ozark stream smallmouth regulations. We simply structured our proposals in a manner to closely match the slate of biologically-based regulations regime already in place for our state. We just wanted to raise the bar to improve quality on a more widespread basis. We believe that our actions certainly got the conversation going within the MDC ranks again after seemingly several years of complacency.

One tangible upshot of our proposals, we believe, was the MDC's decision to construct and circulate a comprehensive angler survey of our state's avid stream smallmouth and goggle eye anglers to determine their practices and opinions on certain management issues. We feel that this survey will be a great tool with which the MDC can then structure and institute potential managment changes for these species going forward.

We anxiously await the release of those survey results to be discussed at our upcoming meeting this week with the MDC (see Ozark Anglers home page for info).

Do we want the MDC to adopt our suggested managment changes hook, line and sinker? You bet. Unfortunately, this is not how regulations get enacted in our state. Once we learn the angler survey results, MSA will re-invigorate our activities with respect to our submitted proposals. Our organization remains quite committed to our cause to Create World Class Smallmouth Fishing in Missouri and is equally committed to work closely with the MDC in achieving this long-term objective for the benefit of all avid sporting bronzeback fans in the state.

I invite all those interested in this same object to participtate as part of our organization. We will get a lot more accomplished together than as individuals.

thank you Dan!!!!!!

sometimes the BS on this forum is nausiating and looses it's entertainment value.When I think of enlightened minds as it pertains to rivers and preservation I think of the MSA and people like Ron Kruger and Al Agnew. I don't even know who Larry Dablemount is, and the MDC is doing an ok job IMO, they a bit of an elitest attitude which I think is wrong.

[buffresources]

Skipjack's comment on the contract amount is right...I re-read my meeting notes and it was $150,000...the error was mine. A lot was said in those 2+hours and I should have reviewed my post before submitting. I corrected it in the original. Good to know the auditors caught it, at least. I retired out of the federal service and our contracts were bids above $2,500. Anything sole source had a lenghty review and was hard to get funded unless it was hooked to a co-op agreement with a university or such. Maybe this is just the good old boy system at work?

It appears from the comments so far that MDC enforcement issues are either not as prevalent as was stated at the meeting or are more common among the hunters...which seemed to be the majority in attendance from my observation.

I posted a similar thread as this to crappie.com and have received only one comment so far if that is any indication of issue prevalence.

I guess you might look at the actual number of ticket written vs the contested tickets...if such data were avaiable....might give a better indication of a problem, if it exists. However, I got the impression from the comments from people at the meeting that many just paid the tickets and went on....too much money to hire lawyer, etc.

[Mitch f]

I have to question that. As I remember it was a well known striper guide who was caught and ticketed for using trout for bait on Lake Ouachita by the AFG and a local prosecutor and judge agreed to a slap on the wrist penalty. Small fine and no loss of guiding license. I could be wrong but thats what I remember. There also was the sting where trout fishing guides were caught by agents the AFG brought in undercover agents from other states and the local prosecuter refused to bring charges against the guides who were caught. Also the Bassmaster or FLW tournament On Lake Ouachita where one of the contestants tried to weigh in an ilegal slot limit fish and the AGF wouldn't cite him because he was from out of stae. In Arkansas if you have money or influance you can get away with anything.

I admit it was hear say from 3 of my buddies from Hot Springs. And now that I remember it was closer to 15 years ago.

[Al Agnew]

There are always going to be people ticked off at an agency like MDC. A bunch of deer hunters really got their panties twisted with the rules on legal bucks enacted a few years ago. And there are always going to be agents that are going to be a little overzealous in giving tickets.

But to suggest that MDC doesn't have any oversight is wrong. The legislature is ALWAYS looking for ways to slap them down, apparently because a lot of legislators get complaints from constituents that aren't happy with regulations, or the Farm Bureau, on of MDC's biggest enemies, gets their ear, or they just can't stand it because they can't get their hands on the money from the 1/8 cent sales tax. And the commissioners are always getting complaints from the same people. As one MDC employee told me, the last thing the commissioners want is to get phone calls from irate Missourians.

We often forget that MDC has to try to please everybody. We smallmouth anglers want our fish to be bigger (and just as numerous), but some people want to be able to keep and eat more smallies. The trophy buck hunter wants more big bucks, but the average nimrod who only hunts the opening weekend of deer season just wants to shoot a deer. Just about any management decision MDC makes is going to tick somebody off.

I don't know as many people at MDC as I once did...some of them have retired. But I don't really see an elitist attitude. Yes, it sometimes burns my toast when one of the MDC people acts like they know a lot more than I do about a given subject...but they probably do!

[Addicted to Creeks]

We often forget that MDC has to try to please everybody. We smallmouth anglers want our fish to be bigger (and just as numerous), but some people want to be able to keep and eat more smallies. The trophy buck hunter wants more big bucks, but the average nimrod who only hunts the opening weekend of deer season just wants to shoot a deer. Just about any management decision MDC makes is going to tick somebody off.

this. 1000x this.

but ya we should make brown trout catch and release in missouri