Opinions On Guide Guarantees... And Should I Be As Mad As I Am?

[gotmuddy]

He should NOT have been fishing at least not without your approval.

[Feathers and Fins]

Flyman here is my take.

As a fisherman you should have known condition right now are extremely tough so expectations to catch a fish are low. However that said he did say this is his favorite time of year and that lends to the clients idea it should be a productive trip, maybe not the smartest thing for him to say given these conditions.

Now for a guide to be fishing with clients on board is a hard call, I would not tolerate it if we were not catching fish and would call it very unprofessional. If we were catching fish I would certainly request they participate but it should be anglers request not something he should do until you have fish in the boat and only after being asked by the client his #1 job is to get you NOT HIMSELF on fish.

Also he should have been communicating better with you and asking if you wished to try for other species.

As to the refund / free trip / reduced fee. He does have a business to run and cost to cover from the information you provided he should have in my opinion given you a reduced fee perhaps just charged you for his cost for the day or half price. I base that on I believe he mislead you that fishing this time of year was his favorite and by his fishing when he should have been doing everything to be sure you caught something. This is based off your side of the story and not knowing his. If he comes on here and replies with a different version then I may change my mind.

[flyman]

Ducky nailed it on the head. That's the service a paying customer should receive. I don't think I had completely unrealistic expectations. I know how difficult walleye fishing can be. I knew going in that it would likely be slow. I just wish after 4 hours of no fish he would have offered an alternative or more advice, suggestions or some other information I could take with me. The guarantee expectation was my own ignorance. I know that there are several in the area that do offer a "next trip free" guarantee, so I assumed incorrectly that it was common. So, perhaps the amount disappointment I had toward the guide was undeserved. I am still disappointed however because I feel more service could have been offered. I'm less upset now after venting a bit and reading the thoughts of others. Maybe I was a little unfair. Still, I don't feel I learned as much as I would have liked.

[ness]

Ness, I usually do not fish with guests. I'm afraid of catching a fish that could have been Thiers. I do have some long time return guests up in Alaska that demand I fish with them. It is kinda awkward in my opinion and I never want to catch a nice fish with them in the boat. I will on occasion demonstrate a technique or hook a fish occasionally to build confidence but I will pass that hooked fish off to a guest to fight. There is a lot to learn in fighting fish and I think that helps to coach them on when to let them run, when to reel and how to help steer a fish while fighting.

On a slow day, I share lots of stories, talk about patterns, demonstrate techniques and emphasize enjoying the outdoors and taking in everything Alaska has to offer

Well, that's the way I think it should be.

I had a two-day stop in Tennessee a few summers ago (on the way to somewhere else I would have rather passed on) and hired a guide for a day hoping to make the most of it. It rained hard the night before and that morning, and the streams were all blown out. We drove all over GSMNP trying to find a valley that was fishable. All the while, this guy was telling me stuff about the area, history, the locals, fishing, where we were etc. When we did end up fishing, he worked with me on improving my roll cast, and I ended up with a couple fish. But the best part was the rest -- not those fish. Next time I go out there, I'll look him up and do it again. Maybe even take him to dinner. That's the difference between a 'real' guide and all the rest, IMO. He'll get repeat business, and recommendations from those clients for new business. It's a service, not fish purchase.

[Old plug]

Whatever he was using I wonder if you were watching his technique. He may have been doing something in the retrieve that made the fish bite.

[mikeak]

ducky.Where do you fish in Ak? I used to guide on the Deshka a lot,off of the Big Susitna. I've hooked many a fish and asked one the clients (usually the kids ) to hold the rod for a minute while I get something. The last year I guided they changed the rules to where a guide could"nt fish with clients in the boat. I never had a completely fishless day but if we had had a poor day I'd usually offer to take them out again and just charge for gas money.

Mike

[duckydoty]

I guide in western Alaska in and around Katmai National Park. We do a lot of fly outs to remote areas and the lodge is on the Naknek River just outside of King Salmon.

[fishinwrench]

I just can't help but think that the disappointment would have been turned to rave reviews of said guide.....had you gotten 2 quality bites, and fish in the net, late in the day.

Your guide I'm sure was banking/hoping for it. It was a gamble either way, and he shot for the win.

Should he have ignored his gut and tried to persuade you into catching a few bass instead? I've been a guide in the same situation and always condoned sticking with what I know can work.

What if he talked you out of trying for a big walleye, and you got skunked at bass fishing too? You might be pissed that he didn't allow you to put in more time on the walleye bite.

Tough call any direction you go.

What line of work are/were you in? (IYDMMA)

[Brian Sloss]

You certainly can't expect the best fishing just because of the guide, but it should increase your odds and you should expect to learn what the fish normally feed on where you are at that time of year, how to fish for them effectively and at the very least, if the fishing is off, learn something to improve your fishing, learn to read the river, knowledge of the river or lake or something. As a guide, I never grab a rod unless my instruction is simply not clicking and they need to see what I am trying to get them to do. One or two casts normally will cover it. I am a big believer in being up front with how the river is fishing before someone drives all the way to see me so expectations should be in line as much as possible before arriving. The fish can at times screw that up, but not very often. It is better business in the long run to be up front if the fishing is off. Might suck sometimes in the short run, but so does having someone in your boat disappointed for 8 hours, because you said fishing was hot, when it was only fair. Setting expectations is very important.

[Phil Lilley]

I understand the part about not much communicating the last 2 hours. And I understand why he was fishing.

I fish (when guiding) only to find out how the fish are biting. Once I find out, I instruct the client, show the client, "do this... like this". Then I watch. But if they're not even hitting what I'm throwing, I'm not stopping till I find fish. In those conditions (tough), how am I to expect a rookie (at what we're doing) to hook fish when I, a professional, can not.

Quiet the last 2 hours- I can only speak of myself. If I've gone 4 hours and my client hasn't caught a fish, I'm uptight- pressure is on. I HATE that feeling and that's the reason I don't guide a lot - my worse fear. Fishing for trout is usually easy. No way I'd make a good walleye guide.

I've been hearing of some GREAT walleye fishing on BS lately- reports I'm not privileged to report here because I've been asked not to. By all indications (weather-wise) , yesterday should have been a stellar fishing day but our trout didn't think so. It was tough. Sounds like walleye thought the same thing.

As far as thinking that the water you were fishing wasn't good water or the way you were fishing wasn't a good technique- that's crazy. Why should a guide take you to dead water and throw wrong baits?

Not every guide is going to be happy-go-lucky. Some of the best guides are old grumps but they flat know fish and how to catch them. If I know your guide, and I think I do, then he's one of the best to learn how to catch walleye on upper BS.