I feel the Bern!

[fishinwrench]

It seems to me that if you give the wealthy more money not much of it trickles down, they just invest more.  They don't seem to do much with their extra money, they just hoard it.    The more they have the happier they are.  It's never enough.   Sure, several generations down the line eventually that money gets pilfered...but it takes a century (and some irresponsible heirs) for that to happen.    

 

[SpoonDog]

5 hours ago, Jerry Rapp said:

anyone who is thinking of voting for Bernie needs to do some research into past Socialist society's.  It never has worked. 

Compared to what?  Weimar Republic?  Haiti?  France's democratic government(s)? Egypt? Mexico? Post-Soviet Russia?  Venezuela? Libya? Afghanistan? Pakistan? Turkey? Yugoslavia? Iran (Not the one now, the democratically-elected one we deposed)? Guatemala (x2)? 

 

Texas?

 

Alllllll the dictatorships we've supported in advance of our democratic principles?  What about our own little rough patches in 1791 and again 1861-1865?   Heck, despite running an polling place out of her living room in rural Missouri my grandmother wasn't allowed to vote, and during the 1970s it was gov't policy to forcibly sterilize Native American women.  I'm not sure socialist societies have the market cornered on failure, or questionable behavior.

 

Just like conservatism there's a whole raft of flavors associated with what some folks blanket-ly (and sometimes mistakenly) deem "socialism."  Bernie Sanders' social democracy model is a pretty far cry from the Red-Scare monsters that had you wetting the bed when you were six years old.  Of the seven nations ahead of us in terms of  standard of living, they're all some form of social democracy. All have some form of socialized medicine- gov't footing the entire bill, public-private partnerships, or in Netherland's case the feds pick up the tab for long-term care while purchasing individual coverage through a private insurer is mandatory.  And it works!  It costs $25K for a knee replacement in Australia, $13K (including airfare) for an AMERICAN to get the same surgery in Belgium, and...$50K to do it here.  As a society, we're collectively dumb enough to pay $150 bucks for a McDouble we can get across the street for $5 so we can be certain the guy with $3.79 can't have any hamburgers, period.  It's cutting off your nose to spite your face. 

 

Folks in those countries live longer, on average.  There's higher minimum wages in most (converted to USD).  Nations like Germany and Norway pay all tuition- even for non-citizens, others have tuition cheaper than what it costs here in the states.  Many pay for education- even for non-citizens.  And many have economies growing faster than ours.  Sure, there's places like Greece- but they're no more an indictment against social democracy than Mexico's an indictment against democracy.

[Mitch f]

Pure and simple wealth redistribution and 10 trillion in new taxes and a 25% increase in the size of the government over the next 10 years?, that's Bernie for ya. That's a deal breaker for me....that's moving in the wrong direction. What's the incentive for one to achieve anything? 

[tho1mas]

Perhaps we should all move to one of these wonderful socialized countries. I had to for 18 months & did not like it at all.

[fishinwrench]

26 minutes ago, tho1mas said:

Perhaps we should all move to one of these wonderful socialized countries. I had to for 18 months & did not like it at all.

Because it was socialized, living there for a year sucked ?  How come?

[tho1mas]

Could not hunt or fish unless you had connections. All state or private land.

[MOPanfisher]

 I will be the first to admit the Bernie is not a true socialist though he does have some socialist leanings, some of his ideas are good.  But again the president doesn't have the power to do basically any of the things he talks about that will take congressional action, good luck with that.  My biggest problem with government programs is that we talk about it like it's a big pot of free money.  Remember that government can give nothing away that it it first does not take away from someone else.  I have no issues with higher taxes on upper income levels, I just don't like to see it wasted.  Any new taxes should come with a sunset clause that automatically expires after say 10 years unless voted on to renew.  And we are going to count on the government to run a new funding program, the same government at the higher levels that couldn't run a 1 sow hog farm without screwing it up.  I work for the federal government and have seen too many times where the local offices are well run but the farther up the food chain you go the worse their ability to manage becomes.

[SpoonDog]

 

2 hours ago, Mitch f said:

Pure and simple wealth redistribution and 10 trillion in new taxes and a 25% increase in the size of the government over the next 10 years?, that's Bernie for ya. That's a deal breaker for me....that's moving in the wrong direction. What's the incentive for one to achieve anything? 

 

That's the crazy part!  Total US healthcare expenditures in 2014 were $3.8 trillion.  Total discretionary spending- Military, VA Benefits, Medicare, Education, Housing, International Aid, Energy, everything- was $1,11 trillion in 2015.  I didn't even know that until I looked it up and it's effin' staggering- as terrible as the feds are and as much money as they squander, they spend less on EVERYTHING, literally all of the things, than we do on just healthcare.  What does that make us?

 

I get that you're ideologically opposed to gov't spending, but let's recognize we're all being screwed by the status quo.  I honestly don't care whether it's an all-public, public-private, or private-mandate model, I'm just suggesting maybe there's some more effective way of providing healthcare in this nation besides punching ourselves in the crotch every time we go to the doctor's office.  Yeah, if you're only reason for getting up in the morning and go to work is for the health bennies, you're probably going to need to find a new motivation.  But I'd argue you're probably not living high-on-the-hog with the status quo, either.  Bernie's plan doesn't change the fact 100K provides a higher quality of life than 20K, and I don't imagine any number of our nation's wealthy trading in lavish offices for janitor's closets so they can get free healthcare.  Lots of people show up for work because they enjoy what they do and they're compensated fairly.  Speaking of compensated fairly- adjusted for inflation wages were higher 1950s-early 1980s than they are now, and I doubt people weren't achieving anything then.    And heck- what's the incentive to get good grades now if you can't afford college?

[Flysmallie]

2 minutes ago, SpoonDog said:

    And heck- what's the incentive to get good grades now if you can't afford college?

 

Maybe a scholarship. Or the A Plus program. I know a lot of kids that have gone to school for two years for free because of the A Plus program. Don't make excuses for people not wanting to better themselves. I did it with no help from the government or my parents. I also worked 40 hours a week. Had a wife and one kid at the time. So I don't want to hear their bullshit about how they can't afford it. Is it easy? Nope. Don't think its supposed to be.

[Norm M]

On ‎2‎/‎3‎/‎2016 at 7:38 PM, fishinwrench said:

I used to be all for legalizing weed.... until I smoked some of the stuff my daughter came across.  

NO....we don't need to be legalizing that $#it.    Might as well legalize LSD while we're at it.    Weed isn't weed anymore. 

 382 days until I can retire and no longer have multiple alphabet agencies randomly asking for liquid donations .