I feel the Bern!

[MOPanfisher]

Benghazi, what happened at the beginning is not my issue with it, terrorist attacks happen.  Could the embassy have been better protected, sure but there is always a balancing act between having a large force and appearing to be peaceful.  My issue with Benghazi is that once the attack happened, and the radio traffic came in, why the support element not released to do what they were supposed to do.  Would it have been bloody, yep, would the end result have been the same, possibly but you cant not try to rescue them.  Gunships spraying rockets and mini gun rounds have a way of changing bad guys way of thinking and possibly left other wannabes with the thought in their heads that maybe messing with an embassy is not a good idea, because just when you think you are gonna win, death and terror begins to rain down on you from the sky.

[Flysmallie]

8 hours ago, Old plug said:

Well Al I agree but I have also noted that most political conversation on this forum are infiltrated by race issues  I THINK. 

I think you are smoking too much wacky weed from your garden or got a hold of some bad shrooms. 

[Old plug]

1 hour ago, Hog Wally said:

Seriously ?   

Yep

[DainW]

What I don't understand about the Donald Trump phenomenon is this. Donald Trump came into power by wooing the most vehemently anti-Obama segment of the country, the evangelical right and tea party republicans. Yet all of the things that these groups have been complaining about loudly over the past 8 years, Trump is almost a caricature of. 

Conservatives traditionally support limited government and fiscal responsibility, and have criticized Obama loudly for all of the debt that has been incurred under his watch. Yet Donald Trump is promising one of the largest tax cuts in American history (primarily to the highest wage earners), while also promising to invest in infrastructure, build a wall that will cost billions, and increase military spending. What do you think this will do to the debt? If you're a conservative that actually supports fiscal responsibility and limited government, how can you support Donald Trump?

The right has also loudly criticized Obama for being racially divisive. Yet in Donald Trump, they are supporting a guy who called mexican immigrants rapists and murderers on day one, the spokesperson for the birther movement, and the guy who wants to ban all muslim immigrants from the country. You don't think this rhetoric is divisive? Donald Trump's campaign strategy is divide and conquer. If you're a conservative who wants this country to heal racially, how can you support Donald Trump?

I've heard conservatives accuse Obama of being a lawless dictator who ignores the constitution, yet here they've nominated the guy who wants to jail political opponents, "open up the libel laws," thinks there are at least 12 articles in the constitution, and is trying to ban people of a certain religion from entering the country. If you're a constitutional conservative who loves freedom and wants this country to get back to the rule of law, how can you support a fascist like Donald Trump? 

I've also heard that foreign policy has been a mess the last 8 years and our allies don't respect us anymore, yet here you are supporting the guy that's cozying up to Putin and telling us we should reconsider our membership in NATO? Don't even get me started on the fact that he was pro-choice before he was pro-life, or that he's made a living by bribing public officials, including the Clintons. 

Look I just don't get it. I'm not saying you should vote for Clinton, she's as corrupt and power hungry as they come sure. But how can the republican party, the party of small government, constitutionalism, and family values prop up a thrice married con man who probably can't even spell the word constitution? I hate to say it guys, but when you look at all of these things together and try to understand why principled conservatives would actually support a guy like this, the only answer I can come up with is that they're responding to racial dog whistles. I hate to say it but Old Plug has a point. 

[Flysmallie]

28 minutes ago, DainW said:

I hate to say it but Old Plug has a point. 

I don't really care who anyone votes for. Like I said, it's a no win situation. So make up your mind and vote for whomever you want or don't. But the accusations of racism are bullshit and that WILL stop on here. You want to preach that garbage take it some place else.

[DainW]

What garbage? That Donald Trump is a racist? He's absolutely racist. Here's about 3 sources that corroborate my point and I can keep going if you'd like. 

http://fortune.com/2016/06/07/donald-trump-racism-quotes/

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/24/opinion/sunday/is-donald-trump-a-racist.html?_r=0

http://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12270880/donald-trump-racism-history

Or the garbage that his followers are motivated by racial dog whistles? I think I've built a pretty compelling argument as to why I feel that's the case. Sorry but racism is an issue in this country today and it is shaping the dynamics of this race, whether you want to believe it or not and it's relevant to the topic at hand. If you want this "garbage" to stop, then give me a compelling reason as to why it should. Don't just tell me to shut up. I would suggest that if people don't want to be accused of being racist, then perhaps they should stop supporting racist candidates? It's not really helping your case. 

[SpoonDog]

55 minutes ago, Flysmallie said:

I don't really care who anyone votes for. Like I said, it's a no win situation. So make up your mind and vote for whomever you want or don't. But the accusations of racism are bullshit and that WILL stop on here. You want to preach that garbage take it some place else.

 

When people on this board take the position they're willing to curtail rights granted by the Constitution to a group of people because of their religion, that's bigotry.  It's the definition of the term. Don't shoot the messenger because you don't like the message.

It's not even an indictment of anyone's character, it's simply a statement of fact. I have bigoted friends, family, coworkers- and I'm not gonna pretend I don't make jokes about Asian drivers, and I recognize I'm not gonna feel right at home in an AME church.  I know I say things I don't mean, that I can be cavalier or dismissive about serious issues, I also recognize self-awareness and the ability to own ones' words and actions is a hallmark of maturity.  It's another thing that bugs me about Trump.  As much as I don't trust Hillary and agree she's made mistakes, she eventually comes around and owns up to them.  She apologizes.  I don't always think it's sincere, but she does it. 

The concept of accepting responsibility for one's words and actions is contrary to everything we know about Donald Trump.  He doesn't apologize for anything he says, no matter how factually inaccurate or provably wrong he is.  His acolytes eat it up.  We all watched his camp move from "accuastions of plagiarism are absurd," to "we plagiarized," in two or three days- he then proceeded to throw an underling under the bus instead of take any responsibility, as head of the party and Belle of the ball.  I don't think it speaks volumes of the guys' character.

[Hog Wally]

49 minutes ago, Flysmallie said:

I don't really care who anyone votes for. Like I said, it's a no win situation. So make up your mind and vote for whomever you want or don't. But the accusations of racism are bullshit and that WILL stop on here. You want to preach that garbage take it some place else.

I agree.   Racism is bull crap. 

[MOPanfisher]

I am unwilling to curtail any constitutional rights granted to American citizens, and honestly I am undecided on a ban of refugees.  But denying citizenship to them does not violate the constitution as they are not citizens, nor do they enjoy any constitutional protections since they are not even in the US.  As for Trump being a racist, I seriously doubt that he is truly racist, bombastic, blowhard, over confident, and poorly spoken at times yes. However the Democrat side of the situation seems to be more vested in driving the deep divides in Americans along racial, ethnic, religious and incomes lines.  Only reason I can come up with is it is much easier to control a population that is too busy fighting among themselves to notice the erosion of their freedoms and liberties in an attempt to make us more like Europe, Canada, or whomever, but guess what we are NOT those countries, nor do most of want to be patterned after them.

[Mitch f]

17 minutes ago, SpoonDog said:

 

When you people on this board take the position they're willing to curtail rights granted by the Constitution to a group of people because of their religion, that's bigotry.  It's the definition of the term. 

 

Don't shoot the messenger because you don't like the message.

Like the rights "You People" love to take away from Christian Bakers you mean?

And a temporary vetting process to find potential terrorists is taking away ones religious rights?