These are not gigged bass

[Smalliebigs]

Too many a holes in MIZZOURAH have freedom and just can't  control  their urges to nail a piece of meat and  brag to other a holes.....nothing  is gonna change  so get em while you can.....laws are liberal enough  in Missouri,  set by the MDC , I could take home some serious  meat if I was so inclined but I choose  to not put a beat down on fish stocks where I fish....this fire I am sitting  next to is warm and cozy and these beers are cold and tasty. ...the crawls I just poured with Mitch are works of art destined  for a 20 inch fishes mouth .....life is grand

[Chief Grey Bear]

33 minutes ago, MOsmallies said:

Yep... Based on the pictures and evidence we sent the MDC, I heard they prosecuted the guy, he plead not guilty, and I'm not sure where it went from there. Hopefully he was scared enough by it to quit doing it but who knows

One thing to remember, once the citation is issued, it's for the most part out of the hands of the MDC, other than testifying in court. 

Its up to the prosecutor and the judge to level the charges. And if the charges are dropped, it's not the MDC's fault. And I know they get extremely frustrated when they do. 

[Smalliebigs]

Actually  this was the best part of today because  the jigheads  are better  than the crawls

[Brian Jones]

6 hours ago, Chief Grey Bear said:

How many pics a year are you guys sending in??

No they are not perfect and don't pretend to be. But you have to prioritize. Just as with any law enforcement agency, they can't be everywhere. And I know that is a crappy defense if you will, but all LEO's catch the same grief. Mrs. Johnson is complaining about the speeders on her street and Mrs. Greene is complaining about the loud music on her street. 

Meanwhile more and more kids are getting abused by drug addicted parents and then turn to drugs themselves. 

Not in anyway saying that illegal gigging is  not bad though. I'm not trying to lessen the fact that it is a crime. 

At these popular areas, how often per week are they gigged? What day(s) of the week?  

There are over 20,000 miles of fishable waters in the state. So that puts at least a couple thousand in your area. That's a lot of water to cover by boat acting like giggers. Which they don't have to act. They can just pull up and check them. 

Chief:  In regards to the number of pics, this will be the first time I've sent pics in; Incidentally there has also only been one elk poached and two juevenile bald eagles killed in our state recently but they sure have caused a lot of commotion among the MDC folks.      

I understand that the conservation agents cannot be everywhere at once.  However, if they made their presence known around the river accesses this time of year it might make some people think twice about breaking the law.  You bring up a good point with speeding.  We all know of municipalities with police departments that are tough on speeders. Consequently, most people traveling through these municipalities watch their speed and warn others to watch their speed as well.  I believe the same thing could be achieved at the river accesses.  If there's a threat of being checked either on the water or at the access after an evening of gigging or fishing for that matter, most people are going to make sure that they have their I's dotted and T's crossed.  But when a person is encountering a conservation agent on the average of once every seven or eight years, where's the threat of consequences for breaking the law??

If I counted correctly, there are roughly 8 public accesses in St. Francois, Jefferson, and Washington counties that a person can access Big River with a boat big enough to gig from and roughly 7 or 8 in Crawford and Franklin counties that a person can access the Meramec.  Below Robertsville on the Meramec the water clarity is often marginal for gigging.  So, yes, that is a lot of river to cover.  But at the same time, it shouldn't be that difficult for an agent to allow themselves or their vehicle to be seen at a few different accesses each season in order to let everyone know that they're are in fact being watched.  

 

7 hours ago, SpoonDog said:

Look, if an MDC biologist says "illegal gigging isn't a problem," and you hear "illegal gigging doesn't happen," the problem isn't the MDC biologist. 

what you're mad at MDC for is their inability to find a needle in a haystack.  They don't catch every deer or duck or paddlefish poacher either because they can't be everywhere at once, and while I'm all for increased enforcement I'm not sure how you justify putting an agent in every parking lot on a hundred miles of river to catch what's admittedly a small segment of a small group of giggers.  Rural agents are not anonymous- they're at the diner, they're at the county fair, they're interacting with landowners and hunters and anglers, they're at high schools helping with FFA and other projects.  I don't know what sort of insight we're gonna get into the seemy underbelly of illegal gigging when everyone already knows Duane's the agent :).

Isn't a problem, doesn't happen, etc.  Whatever.  You win this one.

I'm not asking them to find a needle in a haystack.  I KNOW they're understaffed.  I know they don't catch every deer, duck, or paddlefish poacher.  But they DO make an attempt to catch at least some with road blocks/check points, deer decoy stings, etc.  It would be absurd to think that the MDC can put an agent on every parking lot on a hundred miles of river.  But I don't think that it's unreasonable for Agent Duane to show up at the local accesses a couple of times a season to make sure everyone is on the up and up and make those who might be considering breaking the law think twice before doing so.  Heck at the very least, he'll probably be offered some fried suckers, taters, and onions by the guys that are doing it right.   

[Al Agnew]

No, I don't think very many minds are going to be changed.  I know mine isn't, because I've had too much experience seeing this stuff.  

This has been an ongoing problem, at least on the Meramec, for many years.   Spoon dog asked what percentage of the bigger bass we catch have gig scars.   I can remember summers after good gigging years back in the 1980s where on some stretches 20-25% of the adult bass we caught had old gig scars.  I didn't fish for smallmouth in the winter back then.  But to be more up to date, by January after autumns with good gigging conditions, 25-50% of the bass over 16 inches that we catch on the Meramec have fresh or fairly fresh gig scars, at least in some sections, including the sections I usually fish and the sections that some of the others I know fish.  Mostly these are scars from near misses and the fish aren't badly injured, but we've also caught them with huge puncture wounds on their backs and even behind the head, where they were struck very well and somehow escaped or were shaken off the gig.  These fish hit our lures, yes, but the chances of them surviving the winter would be pretty slim, seems to me...I've seen fungus growing in these wounds.  Is it our imaginations that, if that percentage have been the target of an illegal gigger but have survived, there has to be as great or greater a number that have NOT survived?

As for winter pole and line fishermen, or fishermen during the spawning season, being able to target big bass...sure, we are trying to catch big ones.  Who isn't?  But we can't go out and truly expect to catch a bunch of big ones every time.  Nor can we "shop" for big fish like a gigger can.  We are at the mercy of which fish decides to bite, or if any of them decide to bite, even if we are fishing where we're pretty sure they are.  The gigger can see them and simply pick out the ones he wants to stick.  The guys I know are good anglers, but they don't catch that many big fish per winter.  Most of the people we see fishing in the winter that seem to be catching fish are releasing them just like we are, but I'm sure there are some who are keeping them.  Which is why I'd like to see the "closed", as in catch and release only, season run from November to Memorial Day instead of only March to Memorial Day.  But I can live with a few big ones being kept legally; it's pretty tough to be relaxed about the numbers that are being gigged.

As others have said, visibility of agents is important.  Nope, it won't stop it all.  There are private accesses on these rivers that we are sure are being used by illegal giggers.  One of the very best wintertime pools on the Meramec is about 3 miles below the closest public access, with a difficult riffle to run in between, so it probably isn't being reached often by giggers using that access.  But there is a private access a quarter mile upstream from it, and we often see a gig boat parked there.  That pool is long and deep, and it's notorious for catching bass with gig marks, and for fishing that steadily declines as the gigging season goes along until by February it usually isn't worth fishing unless you want to only catch smaller fish.  Sure, that's circumstantial evidence, but it's pretty suspicious.  MDC definitely has heard about this situation, because Zipstick and others have sent them letters, emails, and photos.  

But there's no denying it's a tough thing to police.  Gigging is done after dark, and the illegal giggers are cautious.  Chances are that they won't often be caught with gigged bass at public accesses, even if the agent drops by and checks them.  I suspect it would take agents staking out some of the best wintering pools, something that isn't going to be easy to do.  It's kinda like a perfect storm.  A sport done at night in cold weather, during a time when the agents already have their plate full with policing the various hunting seasons, and probably requiring getting away from the accesses to catch the illegals.

[Gavin]

Think the bottom line is that MDC does not want to recognize this problem. They have underfunded enforcement for years in favor of fun stuff they want to do. Think the staffing level is 1 enforcement agent per county. Pretty lame, IMO. it takes between 15-17 FTE Police Officers and 7-8 part timers to keep the peace in the little city that I do controllership work for in St. Louis, population around 2000. Maybe 3-4 square miles in area...near Ferguson but not a war zone. 2 more a County would be a plus.

 

[fishinwrench]

Even back when I was a kid up in Audrain co. and MDC was way less funded there was only one "game warden" per county.   We all knew ours by his first name (Claude) and he had a reputation for being sneaky. So sneaky that he carried scars on his face/neck from being in the wrong place during a covey rise once.   When he retired I was 16-17 and a pretty gal took his place (Pam M.) whose husband was the Sheriff. Pam didn't require much training, when she took over she already knew every trail into every strip pit and had keys to every gate.  She introduced herself to everyone immediately and absolutely did her job well.   That was back in the late 70's early 80's.   When did MDC start getting thier extra sales tax money?  Because agents like that don't seem to exist anymore, and there is still just one per county.

[Jeff Behrns]

Seems like prospective fish poachers have less reason to fear getting caught than prospective deer poachers.  Even though it's probably easier to get away with poaching deer (way more acreage to work with)..and the herd is a less fragile thing than fish populations.  But deer poaching carries the heavier stigma.  Some deer busts have been made recently where the offender's lives have been seriously F'd up by the punishment.  Not sure fish busts are treated with the same seriousness; for a more fragile resource.  Would like to get opinion of someone who knows the legalese behind it all.

[Smallieguy87]

16 hours ago, Smalliebigs said:

Too many a holes in MIZZOURAH have freedom and just can't  control  their urges to nail a piece of meat and  brag to other a holes.....nothing  is gonna change  so get em while you can.....laws are liberal enough  in Missouri,  set by the MDC , I could take home some serious  meat if I was so inclined but I choose  to not put a beat down on fish stocks where I fish....this fire I am sitting  next to is warm and cozy and these beers are cold and tasty. ...the crawls I just poured with Mitch are works of art destined  for a 20 inch fishes mouth .....life is grand

Those things look freakin awesome! Way better then the savage craws. I'm digging the color too. 

[Smallieguy87]

Speaking of MDC and agents not being able to be everywhere at once it never hurts to know your local agent. If you reside in Washington county as I do then here ya go 

Conservation Agent

Lucas McClamroch

Agent Phone: 573-301-5299

St. Louis Regional Office

2360 Hwy. D 

St. Charles,  MO 63304

See map: Google Maps

636-441-4554

ive spoke with him many different times and he's a great guy. That's his office phone so it may take a while for him to return a call but rest assured you will get a call.