These are not gigged bass

[jpb2187]

Next Friday - looks like its gonna be about  65 and sunny. Got some new waders, gonna go stand in the Meramec near Eureka for a bit, really let my sadistic tendencies loose and hopefully hook into some baby smallmouth (not good enough to catch the adults), scare the crap out of them, and let them go back to a life living in fear of eating the next crawfish. I might even take a picture of all the carnage. No flash though - don't want to be too cruel. 

 

Anyone with me?

[Al Agnew]

Look guys, just because I can somewhat understand the animal rights viewpoint, that doesn't mean I agree with it.  If I did, I wouldn't be catching and releasing 50 or so bass a day.  Do they have lots and lots of nerve endings in their mouths?  Probably, but if they were all nerves sensitive to pain they'd never be able to eat a crayfish.  As Terriorman said and I thought I said, too, fish don't have the mental capacity to feel anguish and terror.  Their reactions to being hooked are instinctive and programmed.  If you start to go down the road of considering the "feelings" of fish, you are well on the way to anthropomorphizing them as individuals instead of considering what's truly important, the health of populations and ecosystems.

And nobody has lost any right of free speech.  What sometimes happens on campuses (and a lot less often and more informally than some make it sound) is competing free speech.  You have the right to say anything, but you don't have the right to expect everybody else to either agree or shut up.  When students or teachers start being arrested for saying something, then it's time to start taking action.

[Mitch f]

If a guy comes on a fishing forum and claims he's more of a  conservationist than a catch and release guy, and then kills the fish and removes them from from the breeding stock, he is not dealing in reality.

Al-we will just have to respectfully disagree on the Free Speech thing ?

 

This will conclude any more posts from me on this topic.

[Hog Wally]

Local old timer told me yesterday that the bass took a beating this year cause of dirty water conditions  people weren't able to identify their targets   I agree. 

[Chief Grey Bear]

1 hour ago, Al Agnew said:

Do they have lots and lots of nerve endings in their mouths?  Probably, but if they were all nerves sensitive to pain they'd never be able to eat a crayfish.  

It's not a probably. It's a fact. Do they feel pain in the same way humans do? No.

Is being hooked an uncomfortable feeling? Possibly. It's most likely not the most pleasurable experience they have encountered. But certainly not one that causes any great, or even minor suffering. It's most likely a mild discomfort at best. 

There must be some type of discomfort or they wouldn't be continuously trying to spit out the hook. They are not doing this because they are being tugged a different direction. And we have all seen them continue to shake their head after releasing them. Sometimes rising back out of the water. 

Now with this being said, I will continue to C&R as many fish as I can. It doesn't bother me in the least. 

[dtrs5kprs]

13 minutes ago, Chief Grey Bear said:

It's not a probably. It's a fact. Do they feel pain in the same way humans do? No.

Is being hooked an uncomfortable feeling? Possibly. It's most likely not the most pleasurable experience they have encountered. But certainly not one that causes any great, or even minor suffering. It's most likely a mild discomfort at best. 

There must be some type of discomfort or they wouldn't be continuously trying to spit out the hook. They are not doing this because they are being tugged a different direction. And we have all seen them continue to shake their head after releasing them. Sometimes rising back out of the water. 

Now with this being said, I will continue to C&R as many fish as I can. It doesn't bother me in the least. 

Right on. Wait...nope, still right on. Just had to check .

I would gladly poke tiny hole in a hundred a day, re-swim them all, and sleep sound of mind and spirit for having done so. Protecting a resource is not the same as anthropomorphizing it. 

And maybe it's because I'm not a full on Ozarkified Winters Bone type, but gigging as a whole strikes me as ridiculous in this century. Makes the state look as backwards as some others I won't mention.

[mjk86]

1 hour ago, Mitch f said:

If a guy comes on a fishing forum and claims he's more of a  conservationist than a catch and release guy, and then kills the fish and removes them from from the breeding stock, he is not dealing in reality.

Al-we will just have to respectfully disagree on the Free Speech thing ?

 

This will conclude any more posts from me on this topic.

We are all dealing in reality unfortunately.  Yes...A conservationist realizes that removing fish from the breeding stock wont negatively affect the fishery if its done responsibly. 

 

3 minutes ago, dtrs5kprs said:

Right on. Wait...nope, still right on. Just had to check .

I would gladly poke tiny hole in a hundred a day, re-swim them all, and sleep sound of mind and spirit for having done so. Protecting a resource is not the same as anthropomorphizing it. 

And maybe it's because I'm not a full on Ozarkified Winters Bone type, but gigging as a whole strikes me as ridiculous in this century. Makes the state look as backwards as some others I won't mention.

I have a cousin who lives in new york...his group of friends has your exact same mentality towards hunting and fishing as you do towards gigging...its a slippery slope.  Maybe Mitch was right about outlawing fishing....but it will start when those who want gigging outlawed to get their way.

[dtrs5kprs]

It's a very Cousin Eddie kind of thing to do. The potentially non-selective nature of the act is the real problem.

[MOPanfisher]

46 minutes ago, dtrs5kprs said:

And maybe it's because I'm not a full on Ozarkified Winters Bone type, but gigging as a whole strikes me as ridiculous in this century. Makes the state look as backwards as some others I won't mention.

You mean like bow hunting, or muzzle loader hunting, or any number of other things that are based upon past traditions.  Besides for those who like suckers, myself included, how do you harvest them.  I have caught them on bait before in the spring but not consistent enough to be worth targeting them that way.

[Al Agnew]

Well...I could ask why they "need" to be harvested.  I'm not sure that native suckers "overpopulating" would be all that bad for the whole ecosystem.  But, I really DON'T want to kill every gigger's sport because of the bad eggs in the bunch.

I'm not buying the dirty water excuse, by the way.  We see MORE scarred and dead bass during time periods when the conditions are excellent for gigging.  I'm sure the occasional otherwise ethical gigger accidentally sticks a game fish, although even that burns me, since that excuse doesn't fly with mis-identified waterfowl and bucks without the requisite number of points--a cardinal rule of hunting is to be sure of what you are shooting.  But I'm convinced the guys that are really harming the big bass resource are doing it deliberately, not accidentally.