Thanks for nothing MDC

[SpoonDog]

7 minutes ago, Mitch f said:

Many times the difference between a good day of fishing and a bad day of fishing is knowing where the fish are. All the data collectors have to do is miss one big rootwad in a spot and skew the data for that entire section of river. Are the people collecting the data committed enough to make sure things are done right? Do they have an experienced field agent with them? Is it a hot day and are they getting fatigued too easily? 

So, to answer your last question, yes, I would rather have an experienced field agent collecting the data...if it takes a decade then there is a serious problem. It sounds like you're content with marginal data? I'm not. 

Sure, but why would they miss that rootwad?  There's no evidence your hypothetical situation is real, and there's no evidence MDC's providing "marginal data."

I think I've said it before, but of course MDC's dataset is different from anglers experiences- that doesn't mean one's biased and the other isn't.  Unless smallmouth anglers collect 100% of the fish, that 100% of the fish that eat are actually boated, that anglers aren't cherry-picking the most likely smallmouth spots and blowing through frog water.  Both estimates are biased by the gear being used, and like it or not MDC's results are at least as likely to represent "true" population structure as an individual angler's. 

[top_dollar]

1 hour ago, fishinwrench said:

Has there ever been actual violence spawned from here ?

If there has I've never heard about it.   When did the old saying, "sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me" become irrelevant?

Its not so much that i took offense...but when he says to me in reference to a comment i made to Mitch F "the lower meremec is now a dangerous place for you" Thats enough to intimidate me into not wanting to run into him.  That was not a thinly veiled threat, or an intimidation tactic....its a direct threat to me.  Im no tough guy, so i dont wanna get into a fight or worse with this guy. Him and I both live in the same general area...and he is clearly a bit off his rocker...and if i had to guess he is also armed to the teeth.  No thanks, im not hip to getting into a fist fight with a guy cuz im willing to eat a smallmouth, im sure he could kick my butt and thats something i do not want. 

[Mitch f]

6 minutes ago, SpoonDog said:

Sure, but why would they miss that rootwad?  There's no evidence your hypothetical situation is real, and there's no evidence MDC's providing "marginal data."

I think I've said it before, but of course MDC's dataset is different from anglers experiences- that doesn't mean one's biased and the other isn't.  Unless smallmouth anglers collect 100% of the fish, that 100% of the fish that eat are actually boated, that anglers aren't cherry-picking the most likely smallmouth spots and blowing through frog water.  Both estimates are biased by the gear being used, and like it or not MDC's results are at least as likely to represent "true" population structure as an individual angler's. 

I've had too many good anglers tell me that they've watched them collect for 30-40 minutes within a .5 miles of the boat ramp. And apparently it takes a little more effort to shock anywhere but the middle of the river. I'm sticking by my statement.

[Mitch f]

11 minutes ago, ozark trout fisher said:

Nope.

Science (especially of this variety) gets done on the backs of by and large younger folks who, generally, know exactly what the heck they're doing and are willing to work in the kind of adverse conditions that most wouldn't and get essentially none of the credit. I have never been affiliated with the MDC and I'm not in fisheries , but I am nonetheless extremely familiar with this sort of work. Its a good life, but it ain't easy or cushy, and most take a great deal of pride in what they do and the quality of their work. 

And I am I think understandably touchy when people call the data that is collected poor unless that have some solid evidence that this is the case. Many of those folks out there you are calling out are people I know, and trust.

Do you have solid evidence that it's good? I'm always a little skeptical when I hear that nothing can be challenged and we should accept the data as a gold  standard. I took the last statement out of my post because it sounded bad, for that I'm sorry.

[ozark trout fisher]

It's all good. Maybe we should agree to disagree here.

[ness]

So, what'd you guys fix for dinner last night? I had V's frozen meat ravioli's with a Cascone's Diablo sauce with some Parmesan cheese on top.

[Chief Grey Bear]

1 hour ago, Mitch f said:

Who are the members who strut around acting like their daddy is better than your daddy? Be specific with the person and the incident. I'm thinking it's all in your head.

I can't find it right now but do you remember your whole drunken tirade about Pocahontas and the village people and how the little Neosho is only good for kids just starting out bass fishing comments?

Probably not. 

But why is it everybody has to provide evidence but you?

[Chief Grey Bear]

23 minutes ago, Mitch f said:

I've had too many good anglers tell me that they've watched them collect for 30-40 minutes within a .5 miles of the boat ramp. And apparently it takes a little more effort to shock anywhere but the middle of the river. I'm sticking by my statement.

 

19 minutes ago, Mitch f said:

Do you have solid evidence that it's good? I'm always a little skeptical when I hear that nothing can be challenged and we should accept the data as a gold  standard. I took the last statement out of my post because it sounded bad, for that I'm sorry.

Classic!

[fishinwrench]

56 minutes ago, SpoonDog said:

I guess we can add "never been to an MDC surplus auction" to the mountain of evidence you haven't the slightest idea what it is you're talking about. 

Yeah you can buy some perfectly good stuff there, really cheap.  Why aren't they using it?  You don't trash an outboard and buy a new one because it needs a water pump impeller and a piece of fuel hose replaced.   That's wasteful spending where I was raised.

Actually I can complain about them all I want....if I want....since I replaced a set of control cables and a bilge pump on one of their rigs once and after sending 3 requests for payment I just gave up.  I guess they figure they'll just pay me in Stream Team T-shirts.  Whatever!

[MOPanfisher]

4 hours ago, fishinwrench said:

Why does everyone assume that the only place I frequent is the banks of Lake O ?     I cover way more ground these days than I did back when dirty trucks, calloused hands, and muddy boots were the norm on every MDC employee I saw.  

I'll take your word for it and just assume that the "go home and clean up" policy is the reason why.   Thanks for setting me straight.

FW, I have seen you write enough about fishing on the Niangua and Little Niangua rivers and others  to know that you are not stuck at LOZ.  Vehicles get damaged, and they promptly get sent off to be repaired, most agents I know have encountered a deer or three, or been hit by someone at an access, or been in an iffy spot and slid it sideways into a tree.  I agree that I like seeing them dirty occasionally, and I do as they sometimes stop by after an "encounter" for a cold/hot drink or if it involves our managed property.