Stream Gages going away 7/1/17?

[Al Agnew]

Wrench, I have a distinct contempt for the present Missouri executive and legislative branches.  I might have a few quibbles with MDC and DNR, but for the most part they seem to be doing a pretty decent job, unlike the Missouri legislature and some of the other Missouri agencies.  I know that lots of government agencies waste money.  BUT...I've never heard anybody complain about the USGS wasting a lot of money.  Not all government agencies are alike.  Some are managed better than others.  I have seen no evidence the USGS wastes money on river gauges or anything else.  If somebody can point me to some place where that particular agency is wasteful or inefficient, I'll listen, but for the most part they seem to do good stuff and do it efficiently.

Matt's emails from the USGS people explain very well what goes into operating these gauges and making sure they are accurate and reliable.  Seems to me that the cost, on average, is pretty justifiable.  The reason I said that you and others were just making stuff up is that I knew you had no more of an idea of what it takes to operate these gauges than I did.  You just assumed that there was a lot of waste involved in it because there's waste somewhere else in government. 

[ozark trout fisher]

 

Nobody's making anything up, Al. 

400 dollar toilet seats and 70.00 ink pens in state and government office's are not a myth.  

The reputation is well deserved whether it is acknowledged openly or not. 

Darn, when I've worked with the state government in the past and stayed in insect and pest infested field houses where power might not get restored for days after a big storm, I guess I just somehow just didn't notice all the luxury.

Weird. 

You are confusing "DNR and MDC" with the state capitol and the governor's home. The two are a might-bit different.

[fishinwrench]

Ok then.  So besides river guages, what else does the USGS provide for me and you that is useful on a regular basis ?

Might sound like a stupid question, but if they take away the guages then why do I need them ?   Are weather reports going to get more accurate now that they have more money to throw at it?  They gonna be able to predict earthquakes better?   

What do you reckon they need to do, that they weren't able to do because of the cost of some pretty darn important TO US river guages?  How are we going to benefit from this decision ?  All decisions are made for the benefit of some one or some thing, correct?    Who benefits from this decision ?

 

[jdmidwest]

I think USGS was spending too much in the search for Global Warming. 

But. I like their stream gauge network and check the earthquake page from time to time. Back when I made trips to Alaska, I looked at the volcano site some. It is nice to have the info. 

[moguy1973]

 

Ok then.  So besides river guages, what else does the USGS provide for me and you that is useful on a regular basis ?

Might sound like a stupid question, but if they take away the guages then why do I need them ?   Are weather reports going to get more accurate now that they have more money to throw at it?  They gonna be able to predict earthquakes better?   

What do you reckon they need to do, that they weren't able to do because of the cost of some pretty darn important TO US river guages?  How are we going to benefit from this decision ?  All decisions are made for the benefit of some one or some thing, correct?    Who benefits from this decision ?

 

The do provide earthquake data also.  Whether or not you use that on a daily basis is another thing though.

 

Besides, it's not cheap to go to school to learn about rocks so they have to pay those geologists a lot of money to repay all of those student loans.

[Kelroy]

Here is a brief 'fact-sheet' pertaining to streamgage operation/maintenance cost evaluation:

https://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/2010/3025/pdf/fs2010-3025.pdf

USGS Water Science operations are unique in that they are only 20% funded by Federal money- the other 80% of operating funds must come from cooperators such as DNR, MDC, EPA, USACE, NPS, etc. Of course, when many of the cooperators themselves rely on Federal funding, any time there is a political p*g match and funding gets cut, the budgetary s*t sandwich goes around, and everyone gets to take a bite.

[Al Agnew]

This is the mission statement of the USGS:

"We provide science about the natural hazards that threaten lives and livelihoods; the water, energy, minerals, and other natural resources we rely on; the health of our ecosystems and environment; and the impacts of climate and land-use change. Our scientists develop new methods and tools to supply timely, relevant, and useful information about the Earth and its processes."

They are the acknowledged experts on pretty much all that stuff, and anybody who deals in that kind of stuff relies upon them.  Personally, I've used their products since I was a teenager, when I started collecting topographic maps.  Back then they were  25 cents apiece.  I used those maps religiously.  Now, I depend upon the river gauge data, but I also still depend upon topo maps for learning about any new stream or area that I plan to visit.  Now, you can actually get a download of every topo map all across the United States...free.  All you have to do is print it.  You can also get the aerial photography of that topo map...downloaded free.  If you use Google Earth, most of the satellite photography used by Google comes from the USGS.  Also, I have always had an interest in geology, and have learned the most about it from the publications of the USGS.  

Of course, all that is just for recreation where I'm concerned, but a huge number of people depend upon the USGS in doing their jobs.  A large percentage of the population of the country depends upon them for accurate information about natural hazards.  Jd said he thought they were doing too much looking for global warming, but they are acknowledged independent scientific experts on that subject as well.  Yeah, they are a government agency and as such, PERHAPS influenced by whoever is in power, but I trust their science a lot more than I do that of people who REALLY have an axe to grind, like the scientists hired by the fossil fuel industry.

[fishinwrench]

Their topo maps leave alot to be desired, the top lines and the bottom lines are kinda close.....But all those lines in between are so far off that it's truly a waste of time and more misleading than helpful.  And their weather data is equally sketchy too.   About the only thing they seem to be able to accurately assess is river data......And that's where they choose to take a poop. ?

If upper level river data is not the LEAST  important thing that they do then what is?  And I wonder,  did they make cuts there first?

They appear to be deviating from their mission statement, do they not?

[Kelroy]

 

 About the only thing they seem to be able to accurately assess is river data......And that's where they choose to take a poop. ?

So, you are saying that USGS chose to have the Governor cut MO DNR's budget to the extent that MO DNR could no longer fund their streamgages?

If upper level river data is not the LEAST  important thing that they do then what is?  And I wonder,  did they make cuts there first?

Good question. Here is a link where you can ask them directly:

https://dnr.mo.gov/contact/water.htm

 

 

 

 

[ozark trout fisher]

 

Their topo maps leave alot to be desired, the top lines and the bottom lines are kinda close.....But all those lines in between are so far off that it's truly a waste of time and more misleading than helpful.  And their weather data is equally sketchy too.   About the only thing they seem to be able to accurately assess is river data......And that's where they choose to take a poop. ?

If upper level river data is not the LEAST  important thing that they do then what is?  And I wonder,  did they make cuts there first?

They appear to be deviating from their mission statement, do they not?

The USGS isn't choosing to "take a poop" on anything. Thank His Royal Highness Greitens for that. 

I've always been of the opinion that knowing when a huge flood is coming at a bunch of people from upstream would be a good plan. But I dunno. 

Sorry for the tone, but given the environment we are working in there is no longer any room to be politically correct or pull punches. A bunch of Jeff City (and Washington) politicians who have no clue what they're doing are going to be slashing indiscriminately at things that will have essentially no impact on our budget for the next four years. These are people that have no regard for science or conservation.

It is hard to see how it ends well.