Do Fish Genes matter?

[MoCarp]

Wade in here people..does it matter if we keep the biggest fish?

do fish pass on their traits in public fished waters?

do slot limits work?

should there be limits on keeping the largest fish?

[ozark trout fisher]

3 minutes ago, MoCarp said:

Wade in here people..does it matter if we keep the biggest fish?

do fish pass on their traits in public fished waters?

do slot limits work?

should there be limits on keeping the largest fish?

Thoughts:

That is a very fat bluegill.

[MoCarp]

Coppernose strain.... they stocked some at stockton a few years back, bluff banks with crickets can land some whoppers

I;d like to see the state put in red-ears

[snagged in outlet 3]

Yes, yes, yes if you want fish of the size in the slot, yes.

[Greasy B]

Yes the do matter very much. Bluegill are a perfect example, the behavior of junior males with inferior genetics jumping in a nest after the bull has be taken is well documented. 

Coppernose in Stockton? Wonder who thought that was a good idea? 

[fishinwrench]

Managing for trophy sized fish is done successfully in alot of areas, even in regions that have shorter growing seasons.  How it is done?  Dunno, but I do know that there are cycles.  A trophy lake, in spite of intense management, doesn't just continuously produce hogs year after year after year.  It will be hot for a few years then be mediocre for several.

Back when we used to fish strip pits alot there was the "rule of 8".  The pits that were about 8 years old were the ones where you could expect to catch the most fish over 3lbs.  and to my knowledge they never experienced a hey-day like that again, so the age of a body of water apparently has something to do with it.     Siltation, weed growth, and water chemistry is not something you can easily manage. 

[Al Agnew]

Well, after reading the argument on the other thread, here are my thoughts.  Genetics have to play a part in the growth potential of game fish.  Some are just genetically able to grow faster than others, especially after they get to adult size to begin with.  I don't think it's the only factor in why some grow faster...maybe some bass in streams, for instance, learn to utilize more fatty minnows like stonerollers instead of concentrating so much on crayfish, which are NOT particularly nutritious.  Maybe some move to spring holes in the winter where the warmer temperatures keep them a little more active and they don't completely stop growing during the winter.  Those are just guesses, though...I think the genetic factor is more than a guess.

So, if the genetics are there, once a smallmouth reaches 10 or 11 inches (its fourth year, usually), it is an adult and begins to spawn.  Now it's spreading those genes.  But, maybe it produces a few thousand fry, out of which only a few will reach adult age, and only a tiny percentage of those will actually reach "trophy" size.

So...the more times it spawns, the more adult size fish with superior genetics will eventually result, and ultimately the more trophy sized fish.  So both sides are right to some extent on that other argument.  Protect that fish until it reaches trophy size itself, and it will eventually produce more big fish than it would have if it was harvested at 12 inches.  Protect it even after it becomes a trophy, and it will continue to produce fish that will become big down the road.  So the more times fish of superior genetics are able to spawn, the more genes they spread throughout the population.  And...by the time they get to trophy size, they are also more likely to be able to protect the nest and fry better, which also may result in more survival of those genes, even if they are producing less fry to begin with.  

So from that standpoint, protecting them even after they become trophy size theoretically would result in more adult fish down the road with superior genetics than harvesting them at 15 or 18 inches.  Which, in my opinion, is a great argument for slot limits.  Even better, IF you want to really maximize the numbers of big fish, and the top end growth of big fish, is to protect the big ones almost completely.  I don't remember where, but some state manages trophy fish of whatever species  by something like a yearly tag, something like a deer tag.  You are allowed to keep one trophy size fish per year.  You punch your trophy tag when you catch one you want to keep to mount or whatever.  Once the tag is punched, you can't keep another trophy size one for the rest of the year.  This allows somebody to catch and keep the fish of a lifetime, while giving great protection to the trophy fish in the water.  But this is more of a management strategy for keeping big fish in the water where they are most valuable to ANGLERS, not a genetic management thing in itself. 

[Norm M]

 I have a creek near me that everyone fishes for spawning bass and has for many decades . The spawn time is now pretty much protected but it came too late . . Decades of harvest at the spawn reduced greatly the number of fish that were genetically predisposed to spawn there . The number of nest sites I see while walking the banks is down about 80% from what they were when I first went there 40 years ago . The number of quality fish spawning there has been drastically reduced . 

Due to the loss of spawning areas in the main river and increased competition for the remaining sites there , there have been a few more fish showing up in search of spawning areas . Unfortunately even though is C&R thru the spawn , there are still too many poachers .

I was out there the other day and there were 4 smaller tail end charlies still on beds . There were six guys fishing for those fish to give you some idea of the intense pressure on the spawn .