Gotta love buying parts for a Merc

[fishinwrench]

Here's the thing though.....in order to R&R an injector you have to re-flash the EMM.   

Has anyone tried flashing the EMM with the alleged "bad injector" still intact to see if the problem went away?  It's very likely that the injector itself is fine.  

[fishinwrench]

1 hour ago, Seth said:

The only issue I've had with my 2013 150hp Etec is that it has bogged or wouldn't fire off and start on a couple occasions. Each time it was really hot outside. When it started bogging while running, I just had to ease off of the throttle until it came back to life. When it wouldn't start, I had to just wait a few minutes and try firing it again. It just acted like it wasn't getting fuel. The dealer replaced the fuel pump, but it still did it a few times after that. I've also heard of other people with 2013 and later model Etecs having this issue, but never anybody with one earlier than 2013. I've yet to have it happen to me this summer though and it has been plenty warm on several of the days I've been fishing. There really doesn't seem to be a rhyme or reason to it.

EMM relay (27.00). It controls the high pressure fuel pump too.   You probably got sold a fuel pump for no reason.

Don't question it....just change that relay.  

[Fish Hound]

On ‎09‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 10:52 AM, fishinwrench said:

I've said it all before 🤗

The corporation, and therefore the dealer network, are operating as crooked as a dog's hind leg.  And right now Mr. Johnny Morris is in a position where he could stop it with the stroke of a pen.  I'd love to know the real reason why he doesn't.

I certainly don't mind studying their systems and working on them, but they aren't my choice of an outboard for personal use.   Don't ever confuse their outboard shinanigans with the Mercruiser stern drive systems though, because there's not a better stern drive engine on the planet, and the way they operate the corporation on THAT end of the building is 180° opposite. There's fresh coffee in the pot and donuts on the counter over THERE.

Wrench, what would be your outboard choice for personal use? Thanks

[fishinwrench]

1 hour ago, Fish Hound said:

Wrench, what would be your outboard choice for personal use? Thanks

I have my favorites within every HP range.  Most are older Johnson/Evinrude or Yamaha, but the 2.5 liter Merc EFI and the older XR2 Merc V6 make the list.  

If I were forced to buy NEW it would be the Evinrude Etec in whatever HP range I needed.  

Absolutely no 4-strokes on any boat of mine. 

 

[Seth]

18 hours ago, fishinwrench said:

EMM relay (27.00). It controls the high pressure fuel pump too.   You probably got sold a fuel pump for no reason.

Don't question it....just change that relay.  

Luckily it didn't cost me anything since the motor has warranty, but it is still annoying when they don't actually fix the problem. I'll mention this stuff to them when I take it in for the three year maintenance later next month.

Once my warranty expires on my engine, I'll just bring to you when I have issues. Based on what you say and how others see you as an outboard mechanic, i'd feel better just letting you take care of my engine.

[fishinwrench]

It's getting real close to time for me to bite the bullet and buy the diagnostic equipment for the computer aged engines.  Up until now I've managed to troubleshoot 99% of them without having to access the emm/ecu data, but that's going to come to a screaching halt after the G2's, HPDI's, and ProMax's come out of warranty. 

Beings as how I'm not a "dealer" I don't get a package deal on diagnostic software and connection harnesses.   How many sensor or injector swaps is it gonna take to justify spending 12-18k on diagnostic equipment?   More than I'll get before the systems are outdated I'm afraid.  So until someone like CDI develops a more affordable diagnostic program there are some things that I can't do without the help of some local dealers and the use of their goodies.

The relay thing I learned totally by accident.  I had an Etec with no spark, my helper turn a key on and instead of the fuel pump coming on I heard a short buzz come from the relay.  I popped the relay with a screwdriver handle and the fuel pump kicked on.  While the pump was running I did another spark test and SHAZAM!  spark was restored.  After a bit of study I learned that the relay controlled the ground circuit to both the EMM and the high pressure fuel pump.  

All relays on all outboards used to be manufactured by "Siemen" here in the U.S., but several years ago they switched to a foreign company called "HELLA", and the HELLA relays sometimes do this vibrating intermittent continuity thing that the Siemen relays never did.   Siemen relays do go bad but when they do they are easy to test.  HELLA relays will test good...but they often are not because the intermittent continuity thing tricks your digital voltmeter.

Ever since I figured that out I have been able to quickly cure 90% of unstable running/starting issues on Etec, Opti, and Merc EFI systems by simply replacing the master relay.   Only time will tell if those crappy relays will cause the components behind them to have a shorter life.  That continuous broken contact thing can't be good on high pressure pumps and emm/ecm's.   Unsteady voltage is bad news on anything electrical.

[drew03cmc]

Who'd have thunk that outboard motors are as computerized as the diesel engines in trucks today? I'm a trash truck mechanic for Waste Management in KC and I learn every day that these things are sophisticated beyond belief, not just hauling poo, tampons and used diapers. Hell, I had a truck last night a driver wrote up for an intermittent single cylinder misfire. How he reached that, I have no clue. When I drove it, it drove fine, not really stumbling at all, but with the faintest of misfires on the top end. Being an 01, I wasn't sure what the ECM would tell me, unlike the 2007 and newer units that will tell me when the driver farts. Well, I found a code for a bad engine position sensor and when I got to thinking, that makes perfect sense. The engine will stumble a bit, especially hot with a bad sensor on the crankshaft. With all of this said, I'm a bit overwhelmed with having to resort to a computer on new outboard engines. I guess what I buy will be a small jon with a small, older engine...thanks for confirming my decision Wrench.

[fishinwrench]

Where it all goes bad is when emmission management takes over.  A computer can't fix a mechanical problem.   Let's say an injector sticks open (or becomes plugged).... The O2 sensor tells the computer that there is an overly rich (or lean) condition so it then alters injector pulse width and ignition timing in an attempt to keep EMISSIONS in check.   This is the only thing that matters now....Gotta keep that exhaust clean.  

If there is a minor failure on one cylinder and the engine continues to run well enough to get you home YOU ARE LUCKY.  This crap of designing engine control systems to run CLEAN or not run at all is BS.  If I'm paying that kinda money and I need to outrun a storm or get out of a barges way then piss on some clean exhaust....I want that SOB to start and run !    I refuse to pay thousands more than necessary for an engine system that is designed to sacrifice ME AND MY PASSENGERS for the sake of cleaner air.  My environmental concern side only goes so far.   

4-stroke outboards have the least amount of tolerance in that regard, and that's yet another reason why I will never own one.

This is why they refuse to let guys like me have access to the programming side of those ECM's, because I'd change that crap right quick if I could.

[snagged in outlet 3]

I said it before and I'll say it again.

If our company provided products like that we would have been out of business decades ago.  Unbelievable!