Clear water

[joeD]

It is quite bombastic and pretentious, huh Chief.

[Chief Grey Bear]

11 minutes ago, Al Agnew said:

Meramec below Maramec Spring--practically zero smallmouth in the summer until you get to the first big pool below Cardiac and Suicide, about 4 miles downriver from the spring.  Numbers for the next 7 or 8 miles are far inferior to sections both above the spring and on downstream.  

Current below Montauk--pretty much zero smallies until you get around the mouth of a small warm water tributary a few miles below Baptist Camp.  Not many on downstream until you get past Cedargrove.  A marginal but sometimes decent population from Cedargrove to Welch Spring above Akers.  VERY few below Welch Spring for the next several miles.  You have to get past Pulltite to start finding them in numbers worth fishing for, and below Round Spring before the fishing really gets good.

Eleven Point below Greer Spring--not many for at least 10 miles, not a really good population for 20 miles.

North Fork below Rainbow Springs--hardly any until you get close to Dawt Mill, a long way downstream.

Jacks Fork below Alley Spring--even though it's not trout water, the smallmouth fishing is pretty poor until you get closer to Eminence.

They don't really appear in the Little Piney until you are well below the best trout water.

Yes, if you really want to work at targeting them, you can catch some smallmouth in the trout water, but compared to other sections, it just isn't hardly worth it.  Yes, they congregate around the spring mouths at nearly all the big springs in the winter.  But I suspect that the vast majority of those fish are summering upstream and moving down into the spring water for thermal refuge in the winter.  I doubt that many are living downstream and moving up into the warmer spring water in cold weather.  And even in the winter, you won't catch many EXCEPT in the first few good pools below the big springs, until you get below the influence of the spring water temperatures.

That's just not accurate Al. You're straining to make you're argument. I have actually fished a few of those waters and your description does not mirror my experience. There is no doubt I have not fished as much as you have but I have had total opposite results. 

 

[Chief Grey Bear]

10 minutes ago, joeD said:

It is quite bombastic and pretentious, huh Chief.

Accurate above all else. 

From my point of view anyway. 

[Mitch f]

16 minutes ago, joeD said:

Our streams are perfect. 

You have beauty in front of you. Quit complaining about what is wrong, and go fishing and show us what is right.

You always go out of state to fish Joesphine! Why? , since we have perfection here?

[joeD]

Not always Mitch. No steelhead in Missouri. 

 

 

[Mitch f]

5 minutes ago, joeD said:

Not always Mitch. No steelhead in Missouri. 

 

 

Smallmouth and brown trout trips are both Arkansas. You called me from Arkansas...Amember? 😂

[joeD]

Oh...That was you?

[fishinwrench]

1 hour ago, Al Agnew said:

Meramec below Maramec Spring--practically zero smallmouth in the summer until you get to the first big pool below Cardiac and Suicide, about 4 miles downriver from the spring.  Numbers for the next 7 or 8 miles are far inferior to sections both above the spring and on downstream.  

Current below Montauk--pretty much zero smallies until you get around the mouth of a small warm water tributary a few miles below Baptist Camp.  Not many on downstream until you get past Cedargrove.  A marginal but sometimes decent population from Cedargrove to Welch Spring above Akers.  VERY few below Welch Spring for the next several miles.  You have to get past Pulltite to start finding them in numbers worth fishing for, and below Round Spring before the fishing really gets good.

Eleven Point below Greer Spring--not many for at least 10 miles, not a really good population for 20 miles.

North Fork below Rainbow Springs--hardly any until you get close to Dawt Mill, a long way downstream.

Jacks Fork below Alley Spring--even though it's not trout water, the smallmouth fishing is pretty poor until you get closer to Eminence.

They don't really appear in the Little Piney until you are well below the best trout water.

Yes, if you really want to work at targeting them, you can catch some smallmouth in the trout water, but compared to other sections, it just isn't hardly worth it.  Yes, they congregate around the spring mouths at nearly all the big springs in the winter.  But I suspect that the vast majority of those fish are summering upstream and moving down into the spring water for thermal refuge in the winter.  I doubt that many are living downstream and moving up into the warmer spring water in cold weather.  And even in the winter, you won't catch many EXCEPT in the first few good pools below the big springs, until you get below the influence of the spring water temperatures.

Thank you!    

[fishinwrench]

1 hour ago, joeD said:

You guys talk about inches and pounds and catch rates and governmental regulations and otters and erosion and gravel mining and gigging and unscrupulous fisherpeople  and everything else that somehow prevents us fishermen from realizing our potential,  and our Ozark streams from producing both numbers and size of smallies , as if it is OUR FAULT that OUR STREAMS are somehow LESS than THEY COULD BE. 

Our streams are perfect. 

You have beauty in front of you. Quit complaining about what is wrong, and go fishing and show us what is right.

Do you even realize how boring it would be around here if all we talked about was how awesome our lives were?

Complaining and cussing the negatives is what gets things done here in America.  Being easily pleased insures that the only way you'll go in life is downhill.   

So do yourself a favor and find something to piss and moan about !

[Gavin]

Chief you have always been rather long with your I statements. My experience has been the same as many on the N. fork, Niangua, Current, Eleven pt. The trout & smallies do not seem to mix much in the summer. They prefer similar habitat, but prefer different temperatures in the summer months. Both seem to like warmer in the winter. It's my empirical evidence v yours but used to be a trout addict. Summer smallmouth on trout water is like winter smallmouth on bigger water. They hold in certain spots and not many.