Do you all know this guy?

[fishinwrench]

11 minutes ago, slothman said:

I don’t know, but I’d sure like to see Uncle Josh’s make a return. I’m almost out and only try to bring out the ones I have left on special occasions (for the most part). 

Time to get creative with some bacon and some dippin' dye.  🤔

[Chief Grey Bear]

Interesting conversation. 

In almost 50 years of using live rubber and now silicone skirts, I've never had one tie its self into knots. I've never even head of anyone make that complaint. I don't even know how one would. But I guess I've been lucky all this time. 

Here is a pic of a silicone skirt on a wigglewart and vinyl skirts on some homemade lures for comparison.  I think one can draw their own reasonable conclusion as to which one is more tangle free.

There is some truth that skirts can affect the motion of a bait. But that has more to do with the size of the skirt than it does the material. And it will also depend on the type of bait it is used on. 

 Obviously, the wigglewart has a much broader wiggle pattern and the effects of the skirt, if any, are minimized. But a skirt of that bulk could cause problems for a lesser bait.

And all skirts are not created equally even from the same material. Manufacturing standards are different. If you're complaining about the collars being to thick or to thin or what have you, it's probably the choice of manufacturer not the choice of material that is your trouble. 

[MOPanfisher]

Hmm, me neither.  Of course I never put the skirt on the front hook either, was always on the back, no real reason why I don't think.

[Al Agnew]

Geez, Chief, I've been fishing these things for something like 45 years now.  I've tried all the skirt materials I could find.  They all get tangled, but the silicone gets tangled worse than the vinyl, period, when using my lures.  And when a skirt gets tangled, the lure doesn't run right...the tangle usually puts more skirt bulk on one side of the hook, and suddenly the lure is running off to one side.  So I have to take the time to untangle it to get the lure running straight again.  You're right in that the amount of material in the skirt makes a big difference, but so does the bulk of the collar.  You can either have a bulky collar and fewer strands,or a smaller collar and more strands.  I prefer having more strands.  

The new skirts that have collars, instead of the silicone ones that just use that rubber ring, don't get tangled much, you're right about that.  But the other problem that I have with them is that the collar is too loose on the hook.  It tends to rotate, and the strands don't rotate the same, so they get bunched on one side and make the lure run off to the side.  The ones that have very thin strands and use the rubber O-ring do get tangled much worse than vinyl.   The vinyl in the ones Chief posted of mine look a little tangled because the skirts haven't been warm or wet for a while, they tend to straighten out when wet.

Wiggle Warts are workable with skirts, but the wobble of the Wart is far wider than the waving of the skirt, like I mentioned above.  Will they catch fish with skirts?  Of course.  But it bothers me to see the skirt barely waving at all while the lure is wobbling like crazy above it.  The lure that I've found works the way I want it to the best is the Rebel Deep Wee Craw, as long as the skirt isn't too thick.  Second best is the Norman Middle N.  And the best medium diver, like running about 3-4 feet, is the old Lazy Ike.  The Midge and Baby Lucky 13 both run about 1-2 feet, and my homemade ones will run anywhere from 6 inches to 3 feet deep, depending upon exactly what shape the body and front end is. You can hold your rod tip a little higher and reel a little slower, and make these shallow runners into wake baits.  In clear water and bright moonlight, they can be killers after dark used as wake baits.

The two homemade ones of mine in the photo Chief posted are typical of the ones I make, but I often experiment with the body and front end shape to see if I can change the action a bit.

Maybe we ought to take this whole crankbait discussion to the general fishing board.  I'm really picky about my river crankbaits, probably a lot more than I need to be, but I've spent a lot of time fooling around with them to try to make them a bit better.  If I have time tomorrow I'll take some photos of the ones I'm currently modifying and using.

[Al Agnew]

15 hours ago, MOPanfisher said:

Hmm, me neither.  Of course I never put the skirt on the front hook either, was always on the back, no real reason why I don't think.

There is a vast amount of difference between putting something on the back hook and putting it on the belly hook, both in the action and profile of the lure and in the amount of tangling of the skirt.  Put it on the back hook and you have essentially a long, jointed lure that the fish sees as a body that's wobbling and a skirt well behind the body that's waving, with a very narrow "waist" between body and tail.  Put the skirt on the belly hook, and the fish sees it as a waving mass of "tentacles" growing out of the body itself, and if the fish is looking up at it, the skirt obscures the body to some extent.  Two very different looks.  I don't add skirts to the back hook of crankbaits, but do often put a feathered treble on the back.  I am not convinced it makes much difference between a "bare" deep diving crankbait and one with a feathered treble "tail" to the fish, though.

[Gavin]

Guess you are not getting any Al. Would rather have you masturbate and STFU, than have you bloviate again. You don’t catch many more than anyone else, and your 20” fish are 17” at best. 😄

[tjm]

5 hours ago, Gavin said:

bloviate

Had to look that up, you fellows use big words sometimes.

I have wondered, what is the difference between a plug and a crankbait? I look at the pictures and see plugs.

[liphunter]

blo·vi·ate

/ˈblōvēˌāt/

verb

INFORMAL•US

 

1. talk at length, especially in an inflated or empty way.

    

   OH...SNAP!!! 

    

    

[MOPanfisher]

8 hours ago, Al Agnew said:

There is a vast amount of difference between putting something on the back hook and putting it on the belly hook, both in the action and profile of the lure and in the amount of tangling of the skirt.  Put it on the back hook and you have essentially a long, jointed lure that the fish sees as a body that's wobbling and a skirt well behind the body that's waving, with a very narrow "waist" between body and tail.  Put the skirt on the belly hook, and the fish sees it as a waving mass of "tentacles" growing out of the body itself, and if the fish is looking up at it, the skirt obscures the body to some extent.  Two very different looks.  I don't add skirts to the back hook of crankbaits, but do often put a feathered treble on the back.  I am not convinced it makes much difference between a "bare" deep diving crankbait and one with a feathered treble "tail" to the fish, though.

Putting a feather on the back sort of amused me, I have bought a few Xraps with the cute little feather on the back treble, and cut them.off with a pocket knife.  I love to to ker with lures adding weight, moving the weight around, adding some bright color, making eyes bigger etc.  Have fun doing it but never really noticed much difference most of the time in catching.  Just haven't found the right combination that makes them fight over it yet.

[Chief Grey Bear]