Photo help with hard to fish lies

[tangledup]

I looked around a little for an existing thread that matched what I had in mind without success. That could very well be because my thread idea is horrible, but I'll pitch it anyway:

Would there be any interest in a thread topic where newbie fly fisher (like myself) could post pictures of hard to fish lies and have the more experienced angers provide some virtual advice on how to fish it? An example of this would be a narrow, windy local stream that I enjoy fishing. There are several holes, both in bends and on straight runs, that have log piles and jams piled in them, with a slow and fast water seam running through them. I know there are fish there, I just haven't been able to fish them without getting tangled and losing a bunch of flies. For the moment we will set aside the fact that hooking a fish in this environment will lead to a whole other set of issues such as getting them out of that mess. 

If this has already been done please excuse me and direct me to the right thread. 

[fishinwrench]

You're not going to drift a fly accurately in a situation like that, so your best strategy is to try to lure the fish out to chase it down.   Streamers (possibly big ones) stripped violently through the zone, Leach patterns swung through there, good ol' Woolly buggers, or surface flys, are your best option.    If you know there are fish buried in there don't keep showing them the same fly over and over.....keep changing it up and eventually, if you have enough flys on you, you'll find one that triggers a few to give chase.

Had a buddy guide me on the Current river a couple times, and he would lure the browns out of the log jams with a giant Rapala, pull it away from them, then I'd throw in a pine squirrel leech..... Boom!     

[ness]

Not a horrible idea for a thread at all.

On a small stream with obvious holding water and a lot of obstacles I’ll usually try a couple things. Try dapping a dry fly in any little pocket or eddy you see first. Watch your approach and shadows. Cover the spots thoroughly but don’t spend a ton of time repeating the same thing. Then, if it’s pretty deep, take the time to rig properly. Longer leader, extra weight to get your fly down quickly. Drift it in and extricate it quickly. Agree with a wooly bugger or mohair leech.

[tjm]

I have pictures in my head, but sure pictures always make a thread better, I hit close to the bottom under those log jams, by standing across the creek with line measured (can float the line past with a taps bug etc to find distance) to fall just short of smacking the log, then casting a heavy whatever up stream across and into the suction steam that goes right under the jam, as the fly is sucked into the flow under the log it will come to the end of the line and be pulled across, out of the jamup and to the surface with no line movement at all just following with rod tip, a flip/roll puts it back for a second trip. If that didn't get any thing i'd move up to a point where I can just feed line down to the jam pile with a wet, streamer or gurgler tied on and let it go down to the pile in 12-18' increments with pause that sucks the fly to the top and makes the smallest wake then loosing it again for a repeat and just as it is at the pile use the rod to lead the fly across current away from the pile, if that doesn't do it i go work the riffle with the wet/gurgler/streamer up to the next pile. I never ever back cast in those situations because I can't control line length precisely, with line pinched off I can  roll cast exactly the same length of almost touching a dozen or more times in a row, although two or three passes is aplenty. One of my favorite "flies" for under logs is a 1/32oz marabou crappie jig from any discount store, second might be a conehead woolly bugger, or a bunny strip. casting into the suction stream above the lie gives the lure a better chance of hitting bottom and bouncing once, and this presentation can also work where the fast run dumps into the deep hole at a bend, I stand on the inside of the bend and pretend the top of the hole is a log jam. By rod manipulation the line stays tight through most of this swing. when the strike comes swing the rod parallel to the water and across stream and down from the jam pile to extract the fish. 

ps- this is better than virus and boats, great idea for a thread, maybe I'll learn from it too. I just saw on rereading the above responses that both appear aimed at trout, my rambles are more in tune with my local smallmouth creek. where I use bigger, heavier flies and shorter leaders than I have for trout, I'll sometimes add shot and if the fly line tip is pulled under I don't mind, 7' leader is the rule.

[laker67]

I use to night fish with a tactic I call "cruise control". I think it might work in a situation you are describing. Standing  upstream near the main current,  point your rod straight up as high as you can reach. Pull line off your reel until it makes a slow arc downstream in the current. You should have about 25 foot or maybe more of total line and leader. Lower your rod tip at a rate to let your fly be slightly slower than the speed of the current. You might have to experiment with weight to keep it sub surface if fishing a scud. A floater won't matter. By keeping it slightly slower on the sub surface you will feel every take. If the current is 3mph set your cruise at 2.9. At the end you can swing it outside the current and fish it back. This requires being quiet and move slowly which is probably what you are doing anyway. Instead of casting give this "cruise control" method a try. Might take a little getting use to. I have caught several big fish at night using this method. Let me know if you try.

[tangledup]

These are all great ideas! I was fishing small nymphs at the time and didn’t switch to wooly buggers or anything. I will try them all! I didn’t think of this picture idea until after I left the creek but I’ll take pictures next week when I go back. 
 

I think this could be really interesting and maybe I can get some creative ideas for how to fish different situations.

[tangledup]

I finally made it back to the creek today. I only had about an hour and a half to fish so I was a little rushed. But I did manage to make it to one of the log jams I was referring to (the least messy one). I only caught three tonight but I spent more time watching than fishing, or at least it seemed so to me. Anyway, here are some pics. I know there are trout in there because I spent about 20 minutes watching it and every few minutes a fish would come up to grab something off the surface right in the logs.

[fishinwrench]

Oh that's a little creek !

High stick it.  

Look up some Joe Humphrey videos, he attacks some Pennsylvania creeks like that.   Practice your bow&arrow casting in your hallway 👍

[Gavin]

Read Joe Humphries Trout Tactics, approach quietly., hide, Sun at your  back, but watch your shadow. No more than 2-3 casts to a spot you think holds fish. If you see a good fish back off and figure it out. Once you have plan, refine it between casts. Don’t flog the water.

[tangledup]

I actually have been watching some of Joe Humphreys' stuff! Amazon has a documentary out about him too. It's pretty cool stuff. I've experimented with the bow and arrow casting a little and have managed to not impale myself. This stream is actually very similar to the small brush covered streams of Pennsylvania that Humphreys is known for fishing. Lots of low limbs and clear water with very little room to maneuver.

From what I'm reading from you guys, I'm wondering if I am overfishing. Coming from a smallmouth (non-flyfishing background) I tend to fish the heck out of one spot on a river or stream that I KNOW has fish in it. Maybe I just need to concentrate on making a few really good casts to a possible holding spot and then move on to the next one. Its just so hard when I know there's trout in there. 

I also discovered just how spooky these fish are last night. I try to be fairly quiet and still while fishing but I severely underestimated them. Last night, just before dark, I noticed one little pool about 50 yards upstream from me that had a ton of surface activity. Every 30 seconds or so a fish would rise and grab something. I watched it for a few minutes and didn't really see a way to fish the pool from the bank due to the trees and brush. So I decided to walk up the bank until I got to the riffles at the bottom of the pool and figured I could enter the water well below the riffles and slowly move up, always keeping either a pile of gravel or the rushing part of the riffles between me and the fish. I got to within 20 yards of the pool and the surface activity died. I waited until it picked back up again and tried tossing an olive woolly bugger in there a few times but didn't have any luck.