Defunding our police..

[SpoonDog]

21 minutes ago, Mitch f said:

In the end Race relations will be worse not better.

 

Takes two to tango.  If race relations get worse it's because some demographic group out there resents the idea black folks and white folks ought to play by the same set of rules. 

Who do you think that demographic group is, and what work would you suggest they do in order to overcome their prejudice?

 

[Mitch f]

5 hours ago, SpoonDog said:

 

Takes two to tango.  If race relations get worse it's because some demographic group out there resents the idea black folks and white folks ought to play by the same set of rules. 

Who do you think that demographic group is, and what work would you suggest they do in order to overcome their prejudice?

 

Same set of rules like Affirmative Action?

[SpoonDog]

Sure.  White guy gets a job because of merit, black guy gets a job because of race.  People rely on that particular crutch because they can't imagine black folks competitive for the same position, much less more qualified.  Can't imagine living in a society that values people for their talents, so they turn to the most obvious difference between them and the other candidate.  It's an easy, comfortable way of avoiding any sort of serious self-reflection.  Find a way to blame the other guy, and you don't have to work on yourself.

Been there.  I remember being young and dumb, with a rejection letter from my dream school, thinking they must have had to fill some quota.  Could've just kept going down that hole, beating my head against the wall. Instead I extracted my head from my rectum and gave it some serious thought.  Turns out it didn't have anything to do with race, I wasn't lighting the world on fire with grades and it was a pretty competitive school.  But chalking it up to skin color meant I had no control.  Didn't require me to work harder.  Didn't require me to be more competitive.  If affirmative action is holding white folks back in the workplace....be a stronger candidate. 

White folks invested a lot of time and energy making certain black folks couldn't be doctors, lawyers, landowners, business owners, politicians, soldiers, scientists, engineers, jockeys, golfers, baseball players, ballerinas...all based on the color of their skin.  White folks were totally comfortable with race-based hiring right up until the moment it didn't exclusively benefit them- once we applied the same idea to everyone, the idea was unconscionable.  Affirmative action shows us that when black folks are treated equally, some subset of white folks cries foul about being treated unfairly.

Affirmative action isn't a panacea- if it were, we'd see far more black doctors, lawyers, scientists, CEOs, politicians, etc.  We don't.  But it is an example of the sort of tough, uncomfortable policy we have to put in place because we understand some subset of white America can't imagine black folks being treated equally.  It's the sort of policy we need if we're going to be honest about identifying and minimizing prejudice in our society. 

 

[oneshot 1]

Interesting me and my wife got our Jobs on what we had went to school for. And we both agree Black Folks has the same opportunity.

Never until now have I seen Blacks saying you have to treat me different because I'm Black and we always got along fine. Now to me they are so racist.

oneshot

[tjm]

2 hours ago, SpoonDog said:

  Affirmative action shows us that when black folks are treated equally

Maybe I don't understand affirmative action, but how is it not discrimination? Doesn't it in effect say to the world "we know these people are not capable of competing on their own and we must give them special advantage"? How is giving special advantage treating anyone equally? Why do you keep bringing up skin color? equal treatment would require no mention of color, creed, religion or tribal affiliation, period.  Any weighting of qualifications for the above factors is clearly not equal treatment.

[Mitch f]

37 minutes ago, tjm said:

Maybe I don't understand affirmative action, but how is it not discrimination? Doesn't it in effect say to the world "we know these people are not capable of competing on their own and we must give them special advantage"? How is giving special advantage treating anyone equally? Why do you keep bringing up skin color? 

Because skin color is the new political creed… It’s all about identity politics now

[DADAKOTA]

I got out of college with my engineering degree in December of 83.  Jobs were tough in the oil industry then.  Recruiters from two different major oil and gas companies told me at the end of my interview that they would hire me in a second, but they needed to hire a minority.  Both said if you were black and/or a woman we'd hire you right now. Piss on affirmative action.  It should be about what you know and not what you are.

[Johnsfolly]

On ‎6‎/‎20‎/‎2020 at 8:24 PM, SpoonDog said:

Maybe you've gone to dozens more protests than I have, and maybe you've had dramatically different experiences at them.  Whatever percentage you think it is, I hope it's based off what you've actually experienced firsthand, and not just what someone on the television told you to believe.  Because we both know mainstream media is biased and unreliable, it'd be awkward to suggest we've drawn some unbiased, reliable conclusions from them. 

 

On ‎6‎/‎21‎/‎2020 at 9:54 AM, SpoonDog said:

They're trying to pass off secondhand information like it's an eyewitness account.  Cobbling together clips and soundbites and talking heads that confirm their own worldview.  When we can compare secondhand reports with our own firsthand experiences, we can arrive at a better understanding of how representative those reports are.  You may have seen 10-15% of protestors acting up.  Maybe that isn't representative.  Maybe it's the ceiling, not the floor. 

We can agree the overwhelming number of protestors are nonviolent.  And every one of those peaceful protestors is granted the same constitutional protections you are.  That's why I don't understand how anyone can or should defend police violating the constitutional rights of peaceful protestors.  Resigning or playing possum in solidarity with officers violating the constitutional rights of peaceful protestors.  Arresting journalists, shooting them with pepper bullets, preventing them from leaving their office to do their job, in violation of their constitutional rights.  I don't know why the Don't Tread on Me crowd can suddenly justify the State violating its citizen's rights. 

Unless you have seen the highlighted sections personally, you are just parroting the same double standard that the MSM have provided you. If folks are throwing bottles, rocks, etc. or are defiant, does that not break the definition of a peaceful protest? 

The protests in our city did not result in police action nor were stores damaged or looted. Did those folks get their point across in their peaceful protests? I don't know.

[SpoonDog]

10 hours ago, tjm said:

Maybe I don't understand affirmative action, but how is it not discrimination? Doesn't it in effect say to the world "we know these people are not capable of competing on their own and we must give them special advantage"?

Affirmative action is not admission black folks can't compete fairly with white folks. It's an acknowledgement white folks won't let them.

We see it in housing, in healthcare, in employment, in policing.  We see it here. 

[SpoonDog]

9 hours ago, DADAKOTA said:

I got out of college with my engineering degree in December of 83.  Jobs were tough in the oil industry then.  Recruiters from two different major oil and gas companies told me at the end of my interview that they would hire me in a second, but they needed to hire a minority.  Both said if you were black and/or a woman we'd hire you right now. Piss on affirmative action.  It should be about what you know and not what you are.

If either made an offer because you were white or male and the other candidates weren't, would you have accepted the position?