Crappie, 10-7

[MoCarp]

5 hours ago, Lvn2Fish said:

I‘m sure Stockton has plenty of shad . But how hard does a fish have to work to eat a Stockton shad . I’m betting that it’s harder for a fish in a deep clear lake with minimal cover to ambush prey . Compared to a muddy shallow lake with abundant cover options . 

Funny you say that...I think many predator fish expend too much to get a meal...common carp are excellent forage for quite some time before the become to large for some fish to eat..with higher caloric and more importantly fat than even rainbow trout...common carp eggs and larva get are great forage for crappie and bluegills...it seems bass And walleye YOY Are spawned at the right time to take advantage of carp at a time they need that initial growth burst to survive...IMHO Stockton could use more diverse prey, with warmer winters than the late 70s another thread fin shad stocking could be warranted, yellow perch/ walleye predator prey relationship is well documented...and a great food fish for anglers as well...spreading harvest away from crappies and walleyes....a few tiger muskies if we have any over population issues...  biodiversity can’t hurt

[MoCarp]

5 hours ago, Lvn2Fish said:

These growth rates are they an average of the overall region ? The little map with the colors is complete bull . Every lake is different .According  to the map a crappie trapped in the spillway pool of springfield lake grows at the same rate  as a crappie in Stockton . 

USDA map is temperature for planting information...each lake is sampled on its own

[MoCarp]

4 hours ago, Devan S. said:

The growth rates from the Grenada study are measured directly from the fish from Grenada. The colored maps are USDA hardiness zone maps. They are really in effect just a comparison of the average minimum winter temperature which should at least in some sense corelate to minimum water temperature as an average across the area. 

 

I don't know of any study specifically related to the growth of crappie at Stockton lake. It probably doesn't exist. I do however think its a stretch to say growth rates are comparable between Stockton and Grenada. If the growth rate for a white crappie at Grenada is 3.7"/year and Stockton is 3.3"/year(a number I just pulled out of thin air to come up with a 10" LL in year 3) then sure they appear close as absolute numbers however the percent difference ends up being 10% difference in growth rates per year which is sizeable when you start talking about 3-4 years compounded.

 

Walcrabass's concept is that Crappie fisheries in themselves are generally catch and keep, not catch and release like bass. In effect his theory is that the biggest contributor to size structure is the LL. Which is probably correct and IF the growth rate is 3.3"/year then adding a year to go from 3 years age class to 4 year age class to harvest is likely not a big deal. However the danger in doing that is that you in effect add an age class of fish to the lake that has to have the food resource available to survive. 

If you do this with Crappie the effect may be minimal, add in changing bass, walleye, catfish, and the concern is a situation where your add a significant strain on the food resource in a lake that is designed and managed as a multispecies destination.  

In my opinion this is the biggest difference between Grenada and Stockton all other things considered. Grenada is managed as a trophy crappie lake to the detriment of all other species(as evidenced by their regulations). Their focus is 99% Crappie for that lake and it works and works well. It is a premier Crappie destination that people travel from all over to visit for one thing and one thing only. They aren't attempting to have significant amounts of "other" species" there in any quality or quantity.

 

 

 

You have a point yet many lakes can offer great fishing for multiple species...Stockton has published growth rates they break 10”by year 3....gizzard shad stay smaller longer in Stockton reducing the population significantly could allow them to reach larger sizes so a bigger meal for bigger fish, I remember crappie anglers bytching the tiger muskies eat all the crappie...yet when the 10”/15 regs came into play crappie fishing got really good again...Stockton used to have a significant mayfly population...unsure if that’s been studied...some re establishing of mayflies has been done in lakes up north...walleye get more intense pressure than in the past as anglers here have learned to fish for them...perhaps slot limits on walleyes? As more people use Stockton, more needs to happen to buffer boom and bust fishing that people want...you can go to most any lake for LMB....IMHO Smallmouth/walleyes are their fame, a Canadian experience right here in Missouri, not much shore development lends itself to that feeling...heck we even see loons....

[Heretolearn]

I think the clear water on most of Stockton presents a unique challenge to crappie growth and other management.  Pomme and Truman produce a lot more large fish than Stockton and their LL is 9 inches.  I get pictures of 16 inch + crappie on Pomme de Terre multiple times a year and have caught several 15+ inch crappie on Pomme.  Last year two years average size was better for me at Stockton, but biggest fish (and lots of little fish) come from the lake with the lower LL.  I finally fished at Truman this Spring it was awesome, but I didn't catch any big crappie.   Size varied a lot fish to fish like Pomme.  I did see a couple of 18 inch crappie that sure looked huge to me though.

[Heretolearn]

If the forage base was better, then a longer length limit would make more sense.  Increasing the forage needs by increasing length limit and biomass of crappie would be to the detriment of other predators - including the growth rate of crappie.  The change for LL of spotted bass has dramatically increased the number of largemouth and smallmouth that I have accidently caught and size of those fish has increased too-including my PB largemouth at ~6 1/2 lbs.  This year I hardly caught any spotted bass and I basically fished the same areas as the last 3 year.  I wonder what impact-if any-this population shift will have on the crappie and walleye populations though.

[Devan S.]

5 hours ago, MoCarp said:

You have a point yet many lakes can offer great fishing for multiple species...Stockton has published growth rates they break 10”by year 3....gizzard shad stay smaller longer in Stockton reducing the population significantly could allow them to reach larger sizes so a bigger meal for bigger fish, I remember crappie anglers bytching the tiger muskies eat all the crappie...yet when the 10”/15 regs came into play crappie fishing got really good again...Stockton used to have a significant mayfly population...unsure if that’s been studied...some re establishing of mayflies has been done in lakes up north...walleye get more intense pressure than in the past as anglers here have learned to fish for them...perhaps slot limits on walleyes? As more people use Stockton, more needs to happen to buffer boom and bust fishing that people want...you can go to most any lake for LMB....IMHO Smallmouth/walleyes are their fame, a Canadian experience right here in Missouri, not much shore development lends itself to that feeling...heck we even see loons....

I don't disagree with you. Missouri's largest problem by far is the multispecies thing. We don't put singular focus on any single species on a specific lake. Missouri is good at being jack of all trades and master of none. Yet we have the potential to have specific lakes be really, really good at certain things. 

BTW I have scoured and scoured MDC and AGFC websites and am struggling to find anything relating to sampling at Stockton lake or Beaver tailwaters. I know they get posted here from time to time as attached PDF's but I cant find them stored historically on their websites. Do you have link for any of them?

[MoCarp]

1 hour ago, Devan S. said:

I don't disagree with you. Missouri's largest problem by far is the multispecies thing. We don't put singular focus on any single species on a specific lake. Missouri is good at being jack of all trades and master of none. Yet we have the potential to have specific lakes be really, really good at certain things. 

BTW I have scoured and scoured MDC and AGFC websites and am struggling to find anything relating to sampling at Stockton lake or Beaver tailwaters. I know they get posted here from time to time as attached PDF's but I cant find them stored historically on their websites. Do you have link for any of them?

I never saved them...should be getting this years soon think it’s this time of year they sample

[Walcrabass]

TO ALL,

 

  So...............  there seems to be a lot of talk about water clarity..............

I was not aware that water clarity stunted the growth of Crappie ?? !!!!  Good information !!!!!!!!!!

What I was thinking was that if it were ILLEGAL to remove them from the lake unless there were a longer length than 10" then we would have bigger fish !!! I guess I am going to have to re-think my idea huh ????

Leave the hogs in the pen when they reach 200 pounds, keep feeding them, they get bigger. Take them to the meat processor, they don't. 

Your friend in the food business,

Walcrabass

[MOPanfisher]

Yep the lower 9 inch MLL on Pomme and Truman and LOZ no big crappie coming out amongst the super heavy fishing pressure.  Has probably been one of the best crappie years here.  Seems to be a bit of a gap in year classes, either are big ones or short fish.  Plus the white bass which have had a tough go the last decade or so are looking big and strong, hope that continues.  High water springs seem to be the key for big year classes, 3 years later they are wait in for the skillet.  

I have never seen a 17 or 18 inch crappie here, I have seen a couple 15 inchers, and they are huge.  Have seen pics of a 15 and 17 together from elsewhere and the difference in that 2 inches is amazing.

 

[MrGiggles]

4 hours ago, MOPanfisher said:

Yep the lower 9 inch MLL on Pomme and Truman and LOZ no big crappie coming out amongst the super heavy fishing pressure.  Has probably been one of the best crappie years here.  Seems to be a bit of a gap in year classes, either are big ones or short fish.  Plus the white bass which have had a tough go the last decade or so are looking big and strong, hope that continues.  High water springs seem to be the key for big year classes, 3 years later they are wait in for the skillet.  

I have never seen a 17 or 18 inch crappie here, I have seen a couple 15 inchers, and they are huge.  Have seen pics of a 15 and 17 together from elsewhere and the difference in that 2 inches is amazing.

 

I've had better luck finding keepers on Pomme this year than Stockton, usually it is the opposite. 

I always thought they lowered the length limits on Pomme and Truman to keep the population down.