Panfish ID Help

[Al Agnew]

On 2/22/2021 at 11:22 PM, fishinwrench said:

Yay!   I knew if I held out long enough that somebody else would type all of that out so that I didn't have to.  😊 

How about the red lips, Al?   Have you got time for that one too?  

I've actually done research on it, and the scientific literature is definitely lacking.  The most common theory is that it has to do with what they are eating...especially crawdads have red pigment that gets concentrated in the fish.  But I highly doubt that's right, because you see the red lips in the winter when crawdads aren't supplying much of a food source, and not so much in the summer when they are really eating crawdads.  Also have see it attributed to nosing around on the bottom trying to stir up crawdads and such, but highly doubt that, too, for much the same reasons.  And a few sources just say that it's mainly a function of water temperature, with their lips getting red in colder water--which does nothing to answer the question of WHY.  I guess their lips get chapped.  Wrench, if you have a better answer I'm all ears (can you have all ears when you're reading instead of listening?)

[fishinwrench]

25 minutes ago, Al Agnew said:

Wrench, if you have a better answer I'm all ears (can you have all ears when you're reading instead of listening?)

I've got nothin'. 😅 

It does no good for me to read scientific literature because I'll invariably come across something that (in my mind) is hogwash.....and then I then I lose trust in ANY and ALL of it.   

About 80% of what I have studied in regards to fisheries biology, in my lifetime, has either been completely wrong, or at the least "generally inaccurate".   So much so that it has given me such a frustrated attitude, that I now lack the capacity to just politely ignore it.  

I'd rather they say... "we just simply aren't sure at this time".....instead of filling in the spaces with S.W.A.G.'s and shortcut-accepting them as facts.   Makes me wanna bang my head on the wall.

Of course all of this is compounded for ME because of the training I went through to become an outboard technician, where 60% of what we were taught was literal BS, and did nothing but set us back intellectually in the field we were trying to master AND PAYING FOR IT.  

[snagged in outlet 3]

6 minutes ago, fishinwrench said:

'd rather they say... "we just simply aren't sure at this time".....instead of filling in the spaces with S.W.A.G.'s and shortcut-accepting them as facts.   Makes me wanna bang my head on the wall.

I taught all my kids that it’s ok to say “I don’t know”.   Most people can’t or won’t do it and then just talk out of their ¥$$.  

[fishinwrench]

10 minutes ago, snagged in outlet 3 said:

I taught all my kids that it’s ok to say “I don’t know”.   Most people can’t or won’t do it and then just talk out of their ¥$$.  

It's one thing if you're just making crap up as you go. 

It's a whole-nother thing if you're regurgitating the flawed information that was taught to you.  I mean like...you had to answer the quiz THAT WAY in order to pass the training course.  

I honestly don't know which is worse.  

[MoCarp]

The question of red eyes...1st you need to know if that individual fish always has red eyes or not...then that’s a genetic question...some studies suggest it gives better sight advantage certain light conditions, water clarity, depth etc....or is it a condition brought on by water conditions that gives an advantage to fish that can undergo said changes....and can any fish ( smallmouth) undergo that change? Or is it dietary? All good reasons..I suspect a good graduate study....

as a note, tench (tinca tinca) all have red eyes, that stay red they are predators