Berkley Parametric another vintage rod found

[BilletHead]

     The hunt continued,

     Was at a Big Swap meet Last Thursday and Friday. Ran upon another Vintage fly rod. I spied it on Thursday morning. In a guys stuff. He had all kinds of fishing things and Vintage Cast iron cookware. I was in paradise. I see this cloth rod case on a table. It was soiled kind of oily looking on the cloth. I unwrapped the ties and slid the three sections out. On the handle cork was a Metal medallion deal embossed with Para/Metric Curved Taper and a Heart in the middle that Said Berkley. 

      The rod itself was a dark maroon color. On the glass itself was a stamp in black you could hardly see that said Berkly Para/Metric Tubular Glass.  P-40 6' 3" Made in USA. I looked it over really well and it was pristine.  I slid it back in the bag and asked how much. Guy said 20 bucks. I laid it back on the table and picked up a couple Zara Spooks for three bucks each and paid for them. Guy said you want that rod? I'm not real sure and said I will think about it. Spent the day walking, walking and walking some more looking around and buying other stuff including a new to me Dutch oven.  Left for the day and thought I should have bought that rod. Even woke up in the middle of the night thinking about it. Made up my mind I would get it if still there. Next day that was the first place I went. Put it together and looked it over again then bought it. On way home I did some googling to see what I had. Consensus is very desirable. Made in different lengths and weights. The more I looked at it the more I began to like it. Some said it was a four weight so after getting home I put a four-weight reel on it. First thing I noticed the hook keeper is on the top of the rod. Reel seat is wood and looks like plain walnut.  Rod is very light. No metal ferrules. Slide together glass to glass. Ends of male ferrules have a wood looking plug. Windings are very nice. Another embellishment right at the hook keeper is a wood veneer or veneer looking wrap. 

      I did some casting with the four-weight line. Really smooth, nice turnover and smooth landing. I will give a five-weight line a try next.  

  @tjm   @kjackson Know anything more about this rod? Age? 

   On a side note, I received the missing screw from the guy in Ireland for my J.W. & Young Pridex reel today. Put in its place on the reel. Perhaps this rod is where it will go? 

[tjm]

I know of them more than about them, never having owned one.

Curt Gowdy had his name on a a lot of them, the ones with the  fancy trim and more guides. Many people say they are good casters. Sometime in the mid or late '70s Berkley  moved rod production to Taiwan, the made in USA dates the rod to before that move. Berkley produced a bunch of Parametrics and they have enough  fans that for a while I was looking for one on eBay and other places, saw lot's of pictures of them, spinning rods and fly, rods but all Parametric., the few nice fly rods that  I saw went for more money than I would bid.  Yours is different from any that I've seen , it's the only one I ever saw a picture of or read  about that has a wood insert seat. If that is maybe walnut grain plastic that would be typical of the Gowdy rods.  I've never seen pictures of one with the wood grain wrap either. The ferrules should spigot male and sleeve reinforced female, I think.The Gowdy series and some others of the late '60s on  used spigots, (no one but Fenwick used tip over butt before about 1980 when the patent ran out but a few manufactures did  use sleeves on the tip section to make similar joint, a few also used butt over tip joints, Daiwa comes to mind, but not before the late '60s I think).  So any glass to glass joint dates later than 1963 when Fenwick started it, but I think not too many before ca 1970.

The Parametric name has collectors arguing over whether the action is parabolic or not, and no one that I'm aware  of has really defined parabolic action, Charles Ritz designed and sold a lot of Parabolic rods but he said that it was just a term with no meaning. I had to look for this quote that I'd seen from the Victor Johnson (father)& Victor Johnson (son) book  "Fiberglass Fly Rods" they said "Computers were used by Berkley to design the Para/Metric's curved taper so that as the rod bent, there was equal stress at every point along the length of the rod. Equal stresses eliminated the kickback problem so common in most rods and allowed casting characteristics that were identical regardless of the length and weight of the rod."  I believe I've read that the taper is concave along it's length, but the computer comment's significance is that it kinda dates the rod too.

Now in all the Parametrics that I looked at over a few years, I've seen just one marked as a #4, I've never even seen one marked as #5 and most users report that even the 6'3" are #6-7.  However I under line most vintage rods  fiberglass and graphite for overhead casting. (I tend to think the conversion charts from letter to number were off a 1/2 weight) and almost anyone coming from graphite to 'glass will want to call all six weights and some seven weights #4. I'd try it with a #6 at least and a slow stroke and if it feels better to you with a #4 go back to that. I think you made about $80 profit when you bought that one.

[BilletHead]

6 hours ago, tjm said:

I know of them more than about them, never having owned one.

Curt Gowdy had his name on a a lot of them, the ones with the  fancy trim and more guides. Many people say they are good casters. Sometime in the mid or late '70s Berkley  moved rod production to Taiwan, the made in USA dates the rod to before that move. Berkley produced a bunch of Parametrics and they have enough  fans that for a while I was looking for one on eBay and other places, saw lot's of pictures of them, spinning rods and fly, rods but all Parametric., the few nice fly rods that  I saw went for more money than I would bid.  Yours is different from any that I've seen , it's the only one I ever saw a picture of or read  about that has a wood insert seat. If that is maybe walnut grain plastic that would be typical of the Gowdy rods.  I've never seen pictures of one with the wood grain wrap either. The ferrules should spigot male and sleeve reinforced female, I think.The Gowdy series and some others of the late '60s on  used spigots, (no one but Fenwick used tip over butt before about 1980 when the patent ran out but a few manufactures did  use sleeves on the tip section to make similar joint, a few also used butt over tip joints, Daiwa comes to mind, but not before the late '60s I think).  So any glass to glass joint dates later than 1963 when Fenwick started it, but I think not too many before ca 1970.

The Parametric name has collectors arguing over whether the action is parabolic or not, and no one that I'm aware  of has really defined parabolic action, Charles Ritz designed and sold a lot of Parabolic rods but he said that it was just a term with no meaning. I had to look for this quote that I'd seen from the Victor Johnson (father)& Victor Johnson (son) book  "Fiberglass Fly Rods" they said "Computers were used by Berkley to design the Para/Metric's curved taper so that as the rod bent, there was equal stress at every point along the length of the rod. Equal stresses eliminated the kickback problem so common in most rods and allowed casting characteristics that were identical regardless of the length and weight of the rod."  I believe I've read that the taper is concave along it's length, but the computer comment's significance is that it kinda dates the rod too.

Now in all the Parametrics that I looked at over a few years, I've seen just one marked as a #4, I've never even seen one marked as #5 and most users report that even the 6'3" are #6-7.  However I under line most vintage rods  fiberglass and graphite for overhead casting. (I tend to think the conversion charts from letter to number were off a 1/2 weight) and almost anyone coming from graphite to 'glass will want to call all six weights and some seven weights #4. I'd try it with a #6 at least and a slow stroke and if it feels better to you with a #4 go back to that. I think you made about $80 profit when you bought that one.

                     Thanks,

   I knew you would know more than I on this rod/subject. After posting this subject yesterday I went out with a five-weight reel and casted. I can say I liked the feel of that also. One thing I did notice is I could feel more flex towards the handle that was a creepy feeling. 

[tjm]

It should flex right into the grip, "equal stress at every point along the length of the rod. " and all that. Also the general idea of "Parametric Action"  the full load rod curve should what I call "parenthetical" - (  - rather the common progressive bends that resemble an upside down j. It's a feel that I like, rather like what was once called "wet fly action" or what Orvis called "Full Flex".  Might take a bit more translational motion in the casting stroke to get the most out of it. My opinion has always been that stiffer rods take less casting skill because they don't bend enough to really get shorter under full load, a deep bending rod makes it a little harder to maintain the straight  line path at the rod tip, it introduces a dip in the line path.  Interestingly though in the hands of an expert caster, the line follows pretty much the same path and speed out of stiff and bendy as demonstrated by Lasse Karlsson https://vimeo.com/35513634

"Two rods cast at the same time, same line on both, and same linelength.

Bendy rod: Berkley Grayphite 8 feet 5/6
Stiff rod: Sage TCX 690
Line Rio tournament Gold 5 weight

To make up for the difference in length, the rods where taped together so the tips where aligned.

The berkley rod is 75% glassfiber and 25% graphite, has an IP of 97 grams and a AA of 65 (so really according to CCS it's fast ;-)) and a MOI of 76

The sage is full graphite, has an IP of 167 grams, an AA of 74 and a MOI of 70

Several things to learn about tackle here."

Lasse did another version of this a while later using rods of the same length, with similar results, IIRC.  He also demonstrates overlining  with a 12 weight Rio Outbound on a #3 Echo carbon 6'6" -   a cast of about 112' I think; but the distance casters often go the other way using #5 line on #7 or #8 rods. It seems the rod ratings are just guesses of what most customers will feel comfortable with. Highly subjective guesses.  The numbers in the above quote (IP, AA, are from the Common Cents System of determining rod characteristics objectively) https://common-cents.info/

[kjackson]

That's a load of info...great stuff.  Have not run across Parametrics at all, as I've shied away from Berkley fly rods. I do have one newer model--I'll have to dig it out to find what it is--that I bought off eBay when I was into my collecting stage. It's a fairly soft rod, so I'm guessing it might be built using the Parametric model.  Back in that time period, I was pretty much stuck on my Orvis Fullflex and Fenwick rods. 

[laker67]

Somewhere I have a 6'3" Berkley that was my first fly rod, and always a favorite.  To survive me, among other qualities, it would have to be quite durable.  Eventually Rick convinced me to start using one of his graphite collection, and I put the parametric away and quite honestly forgot about it.  Thanks for sharing this info.

 

Sandy

[BilletHead]

28 minutes ago, laker67 said:

Somewhere I have a 6'3" Berkley that was my first fly rod, and always a favorite.  To survive me, among other qualities, it would have to be quite durable.  Eventually Rick convinced me to start using one of his graphite collection, and I put the parametric away and quite honestly forgot about it.  Thanks for sharing this info.

 

Sandy

                    I really think this rod is a gem awaiting to be used again Sandy. I hope you do dig it out and reconnect. Thanks for sharing your rods story. 

[tjm]

2 hours ago, kjackson said:

Orvis Fullflex

The fiberglass Fullflex (and I think all Orvis 'glass rods of the time) was made by Bill Phillipson in Denver, same rods that he sold under his name, different label.  Later "Fulflex 'A' " rods were made by Orvis in house,   I think this started in '72 when 3M bought the Phillipson company and might coincide with their earliest graphite rod production and that was likely a Shakespeare designed shop because Shakespeare was just ahead of Fenwick with graphite rods and actually rolled the first year or two of Orvis graphites according to some accounts. I've forgotten some of the Orvis history. I do like the Phillipson (and consequently the  Orvis, LL Bean and Abercrombie & Fitch rods he made)   better than the Fenwick equivalents.   

[kjackson]

17 minutes ago, tjm said:

The fiberglass Fullflex (and I think all Orvis 'glass rods of the time) was made by Bill Phillipson in Denver, same rods that he sold under his name, different label.  Later "Fulflex 'A' " rods were made by Orvis in house,   I think this started in '72 when 3M bought the Phillipson company and might coincide with their earliest graphite rod production and that was likely a Shakespeare designed shop because Shakespeare was just ahead of Fenwick with graphite rods and actually rolled the first year or two of Orvis graphites according to some accounts. I've forgotten some of the Orvis history. I do like the Phillipson (and consequently the  Orvis, LL Bean and Abercrombie & Fitch rods he made)   better than the Fenwick equivalents.   

I have two Orvis Fullflex rods built from blanks I purchased in early '72. Both are in the shop waiting for the rod-winding bench to be built. I have a third rod that appears to be another, and it was picked up for $15 at the Clinton indoor garage sale three years ago. I've cast it a bit and am looking at redoing the handle and probably putting different guides on it. I liked fishing the little 5-weight FF so much that I put away my heavier 1969 Fenwick. 

The Berkley fly rod I have is a Spartan SP-40, 8 ft with no line weight designator. It is a really soft rod, and I'd guess in a four-weight, but that is just a WAG.  While looking, I ran across a rod I'd forgotten about, an Eagle Claw Featherlight 7-foot for a 5/6 line. It's new-ish, unfished and seems a really nice rod. Will have to have it out soon.

[laker67]

@BilletHead I may just do that.  I'm trying out a 10' rod tomorrow.  But my heart belongs to the short sticks.  Btw, Rick's original lunker rod was a graphite/composite import (Lake King) that he literally fished until the fibers came unbound on it.  I still have that rod.