Eye opener for sure

[kjackson]

22 hours ago, tjm said:

I think in a situation like the salt craw story that only that batch (which happened to be red) had some anomaly that wasn't obvious when in the hand, but triggered the fish; they had some defect that caused erratic movement, or some imbalance, or similar, and that if you had a tomato red "anything else"  or even the same lure from a different production run that it would not have been any more successful than a purple or black lure.

 

I'll throw this out there--kind of a rerun from a post on the fly sub-forum-- the difference could be that the natural critter was reflecting ultraviolet rays while the imitation didn't. There isn't a lot known about which fish at what life stage can see UV,  but it's a possibility that UV could be an answer. Pacific salmon and trout do see that spectra, and the young feed on aquatic insects that reflect UV. It's thought that walleyes do as well--according to a guy who designs baits for Berkley. It may also be a reason, some scientists postulate, that some natural materials used in fly tying work better than others dyed to match the color of the natural. If the natural reflects and its substitute doesn't, that makes sense.

Bill Black, the former owner of Spirit River, gave me a bunch of material on how and why of UV and fish. He believed that UV reflectance was a big deal in fishing success. That's why he developed a line of UV materials for fly tyers.

It's not that I really care; I'll fish what I have and hope to find the bait or color that works in that particular situation.

[tjm]

3 hours ago, Maverickpro201 said:

No one really knows what a fish sees. It is all speculation.

not all, because we do know how light waves are absorbed and when there is no red light the color red will disappear. And we do know that the fish have cones and rods in their eyes and we know how cones work and rods work; so really the only thing we don't know is the fish processes what it sees.

[tjm]

33 minutes ago, kjackson said:

I'll throw this out there-

Where is that UV coming from at night? does light from stars penetrate water with the color spectrum?

[snagged in outlet 3]

50 minutes ago, kjackson said:

It's not that I really care; I'll fish what I have and hope to find the bait or color that works in that particular situation.

Exactly.   Don’t we all just switch baits and colors till we get bit?    I switch a lot in any particular outing!   Unless I’m on em right away.  

[Dutch]

46 minutes ago, snagged in outlet 3 said:

Exactly.   Don’t we all just switch baits and colors till we get bit?    I switch a lot in any particular outing!   Unless I’m on em right away.  

No not all of us switch.  Myself, I will switch even with the bite on just to see if something else works better.

[tjm]

If you spend enough time switching colors the lighting will change angles and the colors visible at depth will change with it, or the wind will change, or a cloud will move in or out, or the moon will be nearer to overhead - you can never be sure what triggered the bite

I usually make any changes after the first couple of fish, just to see if the color matters or if it is something else

[snagged in outlet 3]

1 hour ago, Dutch said:

No not all of us switch.  Myself, I will switch even with the bite on just to see if something else works better.

Yep.  Especially if I’m catching a lot of small ones.  

[fishinwrench]

2 hours ago, tjm said:

not all, because we do know how light waves are absorbed and when there is no red light the color red will disappear. And we do know that the fish have cones and rods in their eyes and we know how cones work and rods work; so really the only thing we don't know is the fish processes what it sees.

During spawning time the fishes colors get more brilliant.   Bluegill get that bright orange throat, bluish gill plates, and the green on his sides get more brilliant,  Black Crappie turn almost completely black, Walleye get well defined greenish gold bars, and Bass lateral lines get more defined, Smallmouth are as bronze as they ever get during that time, ect. 

It stands to reason that THOSE colors are certainly noticable to other fish. 

[tjm]

Do you think fish mate at night or in water deep enough that light doesn't penetrate? are your lures trying to evoke a spawning/mating response? those colors presented at the right time and in the right way might work.

Yes, fish "see" colors when the correct wavelength light is present, they have cones in their eyes. That's on the list of things that we know  (those things that are not speculation) about how they see. Fish don't see color when those light wavelengths are not available; for that matter neither do we. 

Go out in the woods on a dark night away from any lights and wait 10-15 minutes for your eyes to adjust until you can see well enough to walk and distinguish different things, you won't see colors as hues. Try the same experiment on a moonlit night in the same place, will you see hues then?  We can't see light that isn't there can we?  This is not theory or science, it's an observation that everybody has made, whether you believe your eyes or not. Fish can't see what isn't there either. Another  way to try color vision might be to grab a dozen similar lures each in a different color and in a closed room with the shades drawn, curtains closed, doors shut turn off the lights and lay those lure out on a table left to right in alphabetical order of the first letter of the color you see in the dark.  

Still fish feed in the dark.

[Flysmallie]

1 hour ago, tjm said:

We can't see light that isn't there can we? 

Oh it's there, you just can't see it. I know it's there because I can go out on the darkest night, setup my camera for a long exposure, and every color will be correct. So it's there, your eyes don't work well enough to see it. But maybe a fish's does. Because, again, you have no idea what they can or cannot see.