Landowner run in on a stream near Pineville

[fishinwrench]

Here is what was explained to me.....or how I interpreted it: 

Any stream in Missouri that you'd probably really like to float & fish CAN legally be floated/fished.....BUT it could cost you thousands of dollars in unrecoverable legal fees, and numerous days in court, in order to win the case, should you get charged with trespassing and decide to fight it.   

Not many people have the time & money to devote to things like that, and that is why the gray areas of case law still exist.   

In essence, someone being charged for trespassing at that general location, pleading guilty and paying the fine, at anytime in the past, has unofficially set the protocol in that county court.....even though it may be technically unlawful.   

 

 

If you could round up 8-10 people who would agree to throw 1000.00 apiece into a legal fund..... you could almost certainly open up any decent sized stream in this state to the general public.  

[Flysmallie]

7 hours ago, fishinwrench said:

If you could round up 8-10 people who would agree to throw 1000.00 apiece into a legal fund..... you could almost certainly open up any decent sized stream in this state to the general public.  

Going to take a lot more money than that. 

[snagged in outlet 3]

Not even the winner comes out ahead in a lawsuit.   Lawyers do....

[Flysmallie]

Look up River Access Coalition (RAC) Finley River. They have already fought and won a case where landowners shut down a access to the Finely River. I don't have the totals but I think they spent quite a bit of money on that and continue to fight appeals to the decision. 

They are also workimg on other projects now like the new River Gravel mining project on the Finley River.

[tjm]

So no real belief that the popular interpretation of Elder  is legally correct. 

[fishinwrench]

4 hours ago, Flysmallie said:

Going to take a lot more money than that. 

Back in 2006 a lawyer told me to be prepared for 5-7k 

[Flysmallie]

9 minutes ago, fishinwrench said:

Back in 2006 a lawyer told me to be prepared for 5-7k 

Pretty sure the fight on Finley was over a couple hundred k’s. 
 

5-7 would probably get you out of some trespassing trouble but it’s not going do much else. 

[fishinwrench]

12 minutes ago, Flysmallie said:

Pretty sure the fight on Finley was over a couple hundred k’s. 
 

5-7 would probably get you out of some trespassing trouble but it’s not going do much else. 

Would have gotten me out of a trespassing charge.....AND it would guarantee that I was free to access the stream.   The crappy part was that it would also free the stream to EVERYONE 🙄 which at the time included a group of meth-heads and general partiers.  

I wasn't in the mindset to foot the bill to free them up a convenient party zone.....even if I could have afforded it.   

The cool part, however, is that word got out that I was preparing to challenge the issue, and my charge got dropped.  I didn't have to pay....or show up to court.😊

[tjm]

2 hours ago, fishinwrench said:

The cool part, however, is that word got out that I was preparing to challenge the issue, and my charge got dropped.  I didn't have to pay....or show up to court.

I imagine that happens a lot and is the primary reason that all Mo, streams have not been in court and opened up. Until someone does take it through the process, the access remains questionable enough that landowners and deputies can restrict access somewhat by various means. If the landowner just once fails to drop the charges, then the court has to do an Elder-Delcour   determination. ButI think that  they can involve the law a thousand times to remove people that are allegedly trespassing because the stream laws are vague and later drop the charges and the stream stays a "maybe". 

[fishinwrench]

2 hours ago, tjm said:

I imagine that happens a lot and is the primary reason that all Mo, streams have not been in court and opened up. Until someone does take it through the process, the access remains questionable enough that landowners and deputies can restrict access somewhat by various means. If the landowner just once fails to drop the charges, then the court has to do an Elder-Delcour   determination. ButI think that  they can involve the law a thousand times to remove people that are allegedly trespassing because the stream laws are vague and later drop the charges and the stream stays a "maybe". 

In my case nobody called in and reported it, or complained at all......A deputy, with nothing better to do, saw my truck and went all tactical, tracked me down probably thinking that I was tending to a crop of ganja.   I think he was pissed because he got his shoes muddy for nothing. 

I still fish that stretch a couple times per year...... I'm just a lot sneakier about it. 😉