Lake Level Record Potential

[dtrs5kprs]

1 hour ago, MOPanfisher said:

Sorry Pepe but you are incorrect.  Some COE dams have navigation as one of their authorized purposes but at TR if it is even a purpose it is very far down the list.  Flood control and hydropower are at the top.  Generally for non full flow dams that have hydropower capability navigation is often removed as a purpose so that the water is not wasted so to speak it is turned into electricity instead.  As I have said many times flood control is number 1 priority but still has to be balanced again hydropower needs.  I'd strictly flood control the lake would be drawn down to 875 or so to provide additional flood storage.

Think he meant navigation in the large sense, especially the Mississippi R and tributaries, which is part and parcel of TR's flood control mission.

[merc1997 Bo]

8 hours ago, Pepe said:

I have spent a good deal of my career working with the Corp as an industrial rehabilitation contractor working on dams including the Table Rock Tainter Gate rehab project well over a decade ago. As Phil said, the hoist motors are super expensive. 

The primary mission of the USACE related to dams is NAVIGATION, not flooding and certainly not power generation.  The mission is defined by Congress and maintaining navigable waterways for national defense & economic purposes is top priority.  Preventing disasters that endangers people (Voters) is next priority.   Beyond that, the priorities may differ based on what they have agreed and contracted to do in that district.

Remember the whole organization is part of the US Army and is run by Army Officers. All of us veterans are familiar with the right way, the wrong way and the Military way. 

Federal Environmental Regulation, Endangered or Threatened Species Acts, Wetland and Migratory Bird Habitat Preservation agreements, Agricultural & Industrial water contracts, etc, can all play into the water-flow equation.  

For example, in Kansas a certain volume of water is required on Redmond Reservoir as emergency coolant for the local nuclear power plant. On top of that, the State has contracted with the Corp and pays them to maintain extra water for use by agricultural industries.  

Based on their mission parameters, the needs of the Mississippi River barge traffic and navigable portions of the White River will far outweigh what all of us want.  Each district has Hydrology Engineers and some pretty sophisticated predictive software, so they aren't really guessing.  

We just aren't important.  

well, pepe,   not to be argumentative, but the dams were built for flood control first, and everything else is secondary.  just like the tva system or any other series of dams, they are first and foremost for flood control, at least in the case of the white river chain of dams.  i have been in several conversations over the years with corp people asking for help with lake levels during spawn to help with spawn success, and the answer always is, "our first priority is flood control".  any recreation function is strictly secondary in nature".

you are right about the governments way, and the government employees have seemed to forget who their bosses actually are.  you also mentioned part of the issue with why flood control is no longer a priority by mentioning the fact that the coe has contracted to do certain things for certain entities

i really don't care how sophisticated their high dollar soft ware is, when you go to trying to out guess mother nature, you are always going to lose.  you also mentioned economic losses, the coe, for years now, have done a really good job of causing economic losses because of the white river water system being too high for people to use and spend money in the process.

bull shoals businesses have suffered for a number of years from everything being under water.  Mr. Lilley, right now is going to suffer from the flooding conditions.

you also mentioned a particular lake, that when it was constructed was meant to be a backup cooling system.  that is an entirely different situation than the dams on the white river system.  they were built first and foremost for flood control and prevention.  so, just as the liberal government has done with our social security, they do as they please, and not always for the best interest of the people, but to line someones pockets.  sorry to step on some military toes, but there are things that go on in the military that is very wasteful and not the best use of tax dollars.  and, just as with just about anything, money seems to get attention over what is right.

nothing against you pepe, but just a different view point and when the white river systems of dams were built, it was for flood prevention of the white river basin.  the coe seems to have taken that focus in a different direction all on their own.  just sayin".

bo

 

 

[skeeter]

1 hour ago, MOPanfisher said:

Sorry Pepe but you are incorrect.  Some COE dams have navigation as one of their authorized purposes but at TR if it is even a purpose it is very far down the list.  Flood control and hydropower are at the top.  Generally for non full flow dams that have hydropower capability navigation is often removed as a purpose so that the water is not wasted so to speak it is turned into electricity instead.  As I have said many times flood control is number 1 priority but still has to be balanced again hydropower needs.  I'd strictly flood control the lake would be drawn down to 875 or so to provide additional flood storage.

Correct, Table Rock authorized by Congress in the Flood Control Act of 1941.  Navigation not a factor.  See fourth paragraph under "Additional Information" heading/section, last sentence in the paragraph. http://www.swl.usace.army.mil/Missions/Recreation/Lakes/TableRockLake/DamandLakeInformation.aspx

[Browning Guy]

The last paragraph from "skeeters" COE link states:  Table Rock Lake is being operated during flood periods in conjunction with other lakes in the basin to prevent damages along the White and lower Mississippi Rivers. Since May 1957 flood reduction in the White River has resulted from the combined effect of the Table Rock, Bull Shoals, and Norfork Lakes, with Beaver Lake effecting regulation since 1964." 

The key portion maybe "to prevent damages along the White and lower Mississippi Rivers".  It would be interesting to know what the economic impact has been over the last 4 major floods due to the COE keeping Ozark lakes at and above normal pools in the fall, winter and early spring.  They just announced the Alton, Missouri area levee (Mississippi)  has breached. Out of curiosity......what effect has the water being forced from the white river system into the Mississippi caused a portion (upstream) of Alton's breach? 

Skeeter -  a great link and observation to add to the discussion.   

[crazy4fishin]

Merc & Skeeter did a good job in outlining the program....if one wanted a visual of the whole white river basin program just stop off at the Dewey Short center on the lake.....great information there.

A few years ago we faced the same issues here in NE - and the comments were the same.....the dams are for flood control first and foremost. 

C4F

[96 CHAMP]

U.S. Army Corps of Engineers releasing record amount of water from Table Rock Lake dam http://via.fox2now.com/bYzsN, this was just posted a couple hours ago from fox 2 news

[Phil Lilley]

23 hours ago, gitnby said:

 

The new bridge is a dock killer...  they used to be able to go through, dodging the pillars, and make it all the way to Powersite. 

We've seen 3 docks go by here.  And that's during daylight hours.

[176champion]

Cape fair camp ground

 

 

[Pepe]

On December 29, 2015 at 9:18 AM, MOPanfisher said:

Sorry Pepe but you are incorrect.  Some COE dams have navigation as one of their authorized purposes but at TR if it is even a purpose it is very far down the list.  Flood control and hydropower are at the top.  Generally for non full flow dams that have hydropower capability navigation is often removed as a purpose so that the water is not wasted so to speak it is turned into electricity instead.  As I have said many times flood control is number 1 priority but still has to be balanced again hydropower needs.  I'd strictly flood control the lake would be drawn down to 875 or so to provide additional flood storage.

I apologize if my post is not clear.  I was not posting about any specific dam, only the overall COE mission priorities. It's not my opinion it is statutory. 

[MOPanfisher]

 Type in the words Flood Control Act into a search and pick a year.  You will quickly see the authorization and and missions set by congress.  The COE has many navigation responsibilities including, levees, wing dikes, channelization, harbor facilities, dredging etc.  But the dams were set up for flood control first and foremost.