What about the ones who don't get caught?

[MoCarp]

7 minutes ago, BilletHead said:

   Boy I can hardly wait to catch a nice stringer of LEGAL to take bass for a fish fry and post it here . No woopsie needed!

BilletHead

Thats why you don't, you pound your own spots till the don't produce keepers anymore

[bfishn]

1 hour ago, MoCarp said:

.... but largest fish should go back to keep those better genes...

 

You keep saying that, but it doesn't pass muster. A fish that theoretically has "big fish genes" (an unproven theory at that) has those genes as a fingerling. By the time they become the "large fish" you speak of, they've already spawned many times, ensuring the continuation of the parent genes. Then, when they're really large and nearing their natural life expectancy, their ability to reproduce wanes, and they become worthless for extending the gene pool. Hatchery managers routinely cull out the oldest broodstock for that very reason.

I'm not saying there's no good reason to release big fish... but the reason you're using is a poor one.

[Mitch f]

2 minutes ago, bfishn said:

You keep saying that, but it doesn't pass muster. A fish that theoretically has "big fish genes" (an unproven theory at that) has those genes as a fingerling. By the time they become the "large fish" you speak of, they've already spawned many times, ensuring the continuation of the parent genes. Then, when they're really large and nearing their natural life expectancy, their ability to reproduce wanes, and they become worthless for extending the gene pool. Hatchery managers routinely cull out the oldest broodstock for that very reason.

I'm not saying there's no good reason to release big fish... but the reason you're using is a poor one.

Interesting, I read a study (if I could ever find it) that some of our creel limits affected the size of the fish because of the way we removed the biggest fish out of the gene pool. They gave several species as examples of how big the average fish size used to be compared to now. 

[MoCarp]

3 minutes ago, bfishn said:

You keep saying that, but it doesn't pass muster. A fish that theoretically has "big fish genes" (an unproven theory at that) has those genes as a fingerling. By the time they become the "large fish" you speak of, they've already spawned many times, ensuring the continuation of the parent genes. Then, when they're really large and nearing their natural life expectancy, their ability to reproduce wanes, and they become worthless for extending the gene pool. Hatchery managers routinely cull out the oldest broodstock for that very reason.

I'm not saying there's no good reason to release big fish... but the reason you're using is a poor one.

OLD fish don't always = BIG fish....fast growth, larger peak size faster......any biologist worth their salt knows this, selective breeding for traits have been the back bone of fisheries for a long long time.....

4 minutes ago, bfishn said:

By the time they become the "large fish" you speak of, they've already spawned many times, ensuring the continuation of the parent genes. Then, when they're really large and nearing their natural life expectancy, their ability to reproduce wanes, and they become worthless for extending the gene pool. Hatchery managers routinely cull out the oldest broodstock for that very reason.

 

if you kill off those big old carp you get many more small carp that case more issues.....walked into that one

from By Joe Bonneau, Dennis Scarnecchia, and Emil Berard At Bowman-Haley Reservoir 

"In many nutrient-rich reservoirs, carp may at first reproduce successfully, resulting in one or two strong year classes in succession. Their long lifespan (up to 15 years or more) and potential to reach a large size (up to 20 pounds or more) allow fish from strong year classes to grow steadily, rapidly at first, but more slowly later on as they become large and exceed natural limits of their food supply.

Eventually the reservoir is full of large, old carp whose reproductive success is poor, because the reservoir's carrying capacity for carp is reached. Growth and survival rates of young-of-the-year are low. Although few young carp are added to the population, the damage was done when the strong year classes were produced.

The Old Carp Syndrome may persist for years until a die off reduces the dominant year classes. If the die off is sudden, the entire process can start over. This cycle explains why biologists have often removed large numbers of carp from waters, only to see survivors reproduce successfully and recreate the Old Carp Syndrome 10 years later.

With fewer old carp, food for younger carp may be abundant. They can grow rapidly, and quickly reach a size too large for predation."

[BilletHead]

4 minutes ago, MoCarp said:

Thats why you don't, you pound your own spots till the don't produce keepers anymore

      Hey lighten up Francis. You see that smiley face there? Mrs. Billethead and I caught close to thirty bass on the fly rod this morning up to four pounds. Put them all back. We have fished this place for eight years now and keep a couple of messes each year. We still can catch quality fish. If bass become rare you bet our conservation department will lower the limits. I think some folks should get off their soap box and not shame those that keep their legal limits if they choose big fish or small fish. I do not condone poaching in any form. I personally think we have a great program here in place fish and game. I do not believe it is doom and gloom as some think. Thank your lucky stars we live where we live,

   BilletHead out.

   If you want to rattle sabers with me do it PM as I don't want to say something I may regret in public

[bfishn]

5 minutes ago, MoCarp said:

if you kill off those big old carp you get many more small carp that case more issues.....walked into that one

from By Joe Bonneau, Dennis Scarnecchia, and Emil Berard At Bowman-Haley Reservoir 

"In many nutrient-rich reservoirs, carp may at first reproduce successfully, resulting in one or two strong year classes in succession. Their long lifespan (up to 15 years or more) and potential to reach a large size (up to 20 pounds or more) allow fish from strong year classes to grow steadily, rapidly at first, but more slowly later on as they become large and exceed natural limits of their food supply.

Eventually the reservoir is full of large, old carp whose reproductive success is poor, because the reservoir's carrying capacity for carp is reached. Growth and survival rates of young-of-the-year are low. Although few young carp are added to the population, the damage was done when the strong year classes were produced.

The Old Carp Syndrome may persist for years until a die off reduces the dominant year classes. If the die off is sudden, the entire process can start over. This cycle explains why biologists have often removed large numbers of carp from waters, only to see survivors reproduce successfully and recreate the Old Carp Syndrome 10 years later.

With fewer old carp, food for younger carp may be abundant. They can grow rapidly, and quickly reach a size too large for predation."

What does any of that have to do with these special genes you keep preaching?

[MoCarp]

Well I can only go on the genetics classes I took going to University, Punnett Squares, possible allele combinations. perhaps a new thread on fish genetics?

 

“There is a delight in the hardy life of the open. There are no words that can tell the hidden spirit of the wilderness that can reveal its mystery, its melancholy and its charm. The nation behaves well if it treats the natural resources as assets which it must turn over to the next generation increased and not impaired in value. Conservation means development as much as it does protection.”

- Theodore Roosevelt

 

as Roy D Mercer used to say "how big a boy are you? 

[shrapnel]

I truly believe dinosaurs would still be roaming the planet today, if not for illegal giggers taking over their limit.

[MoCarp]

16 minutes ago, BilletHead said:

      Hey lighten up Francis. You see that smiley face there? Mrs. Billethead and I caught close to thirty bass on the fly rod this morning up to four pounds. Put them all back. We have fished this place for eight years now and keep a couple of messes each year. We still can catch quality fish. If bass become rare you bet our conservation department will lower the limits. I think some folks should get off their soap box and not shame those that keep their legal limits if they choose big fish or small fish. I do not condone poaching in any form. I personally think we have a great program here in place fish and game. I do not believe it is doom and gloom as some think. Thank your lucky stars we live where we live,

   BilletHead out.

   If you want to rattle sabers with me do it PM as I don't want to say something I may regret in public

would it not be cool to catch 30 bass to 8 pounds? nothing personal, but big fish are to valuable to catch just once IMHO.....selective harvest is just fine by me, 

[bfishn]

21 minutes ago, MoCarp said:

Well I can only go on the genetics classes I took going to University, Punnett Squares, possible allele combinations. perhaps a new thread on fish genetics?

Go there all you want. Continuing to repeat that removing a fish that has already spawned multiple times erases the genetic lineage of the parent just proves you weren't paying attention in class.

Rice Krispy squares, possible high heel combinations?

Heydezoponroni.