Mega Longear Sunfish

[Devan S.]

8 hours ago, MoCarp said:

 prob would not have commented, yes I am not for stabbing methods, Bfing and gigging specifically spearfishing a distant 3rd, and yes asked if the floaters had holes in them, its interesting when people cringe on the question, the specter of a bad mannered Bfers causing yet another stink fest: such documenting goes hand in hand with effecting changes like was achieved in Conn.

documenting economics, and realistic fisheries biology made this happen, other states we are working to get similar regulations, do I have an agenda? yes I do, I would like to see ALL angling get better, here is to 5# rainbows, 15# browns, 4# smallies, 50" muskies and 10# LMB...even 50# common carp

 

You want ALL angling to get better but generally speaking not ALL user groups want to see the regulations in place to grow the numbers you posted above. Would regulating to 5# rainbows lead to a drop in the numbers of people that can take home their 4 fish limit for supper on Taneycomo? I agree that is your goal and many other individuals goals but remember you have to appease close to all user groups. Maybe in 20, 30, 40, 50 years everyones goals become your goals. That effect doesn't happen from negative knee jerk, slap stick reactions. It comes from education and posting facts and data not conjecture.

 

The first copy/past comes directly from your first link. (abstract only because I'm to lazy to read the whole thing):

We conclude that spearfishing, like other forms of fishing, can have rapid and substantial negative effects on target fish populations. Careful management of spearfishing is therefore needed to ensure that conservation obligations are achieved and that fishery resources are harvested sustainably. This is particularly important both for the GBRMP, due to its extraordinarily high conservation value and world heritage status, and for tropical island nations where people depend on spearfishing for food and income. To minimize the effects of spearfishing on target species and to enhance protection of functionally important fishes (herbivores), we recommend that fishery managers adjust output controls such as size- and catch-limits, rather than prohibit spearfishing altogether. This will preserve the cultural and social importance of spearfishing in coastal communities where it is practised.

Copy and paste from the second link:

For a year (2011) we surveyed spearfishing in 23 Jamaican beaches. Spearfishing has expanded from approximately 1% of fishers in 1991 to about 10% in 2011. The fishery is larger than expected and probably produced 4 000tons per year. Though reef fishes dominated catches, other resources such as lobsters, conch and octopus were regularly taken. Many small juvenile fishes were observed in catches well below their adult or optimum sizes. A total of 58% of spear-fishers reported they would have significant difficulty finding alternative employment if spearfishing was banned. Spearfishers reported exploiting the entire island shelf and also nearly all the offshore banks, especially Pedro Bank. Night spearfishing was common and targeted sleeping reef fishes. The activity is banned and should be enforced. Our recommendations include: register all spearfishers, actively manage spearfishing, a partial ban for part of the year and a ban on using scuba and hookah gear for spearfishing.

Rapid increase, taking fish smaller than optimum size(length limit). Employment dependent on spearfishing(commercial) and breaking the laws. Last line: Actively manage spearfishing, partial ban for part of the year. Both these articles come from Ocean reef locations in which actual visibility is oftentimes 100ft or more compared to what I would describe in our lakes as less than 10 ft.  

To summary in my own word based on only the top 2 articles:

Spearfishing can be detrimental to fisheries if it is not actively managed. This includes length limits to allow fish to grow, bans on spearfishing during part of the year, output controls. I don't think you would get an argument out of anyone on this board that spearfishes.  It is my opinion(and likely those others that partake) that AGFC actively does this today I would also presume that if they saw this as detrimental they would adjust laws accordingly. 

Article 3-discusses un-regulated spearfishing as well in a reef environment and once again explicitly calls for rules and regulations.

Article 4 and 5 are just brief synopsis written that quote dozens of other studies. All linked to a oceanic environment and discuss further regulation for size/harvest limits.

Most of these studies it appears to me were done in less privileged countries(Caribbean, Chilean, Pacific Island) or beach communities where fishing is a significant economic driver be it through catch and keep or commercial regulations. While fishing is a significant economic drive in Southwest Mo/Northwest Ark, surely we can certainly agree that general conservation is much, much different here than there. 

[Quillback]

9 hours ago, MoCarp said:

 

It is well documented the detrimental effects of spearfishing in saltwater,  it was responsible for the ban on some of the larger grouper species, if spearfishing can fish down oceanic species, its reasonable to expect it wouldn't take as much to effect a highland reservoir like beaver or Bullshoals

 

 

 

It will never effect Bull or Beaver.

[Quillback]

10 hours ago, Ham said:

I have not personally spear fished, but I have a pretty good idea that it is far more difficult than most people realize. 

I don’t think I’m in good enough shape to start now. That water is cold and it takes effort to cover ground. Visibility is also often an issue. 

I know you don’t just swim down and pick out which 14 pound walleye you want to shoot. 

And if 14 lb. walleye were so abundant that you could jump in the water and easily find one, then we probably need some spearfishing harvest because us rod and reel types apparently can't figure them out.  😜

[Devan S.]

1 hour ago, Quillback said:

And if 14 lb. walleye were so abundant that you could jump in the water and easily find one, then we probably need some spearfishing harvest because us rod and reel types apparently can't figure them out.  😜

FWIW-I don't spearfish but rec dive and know that visibility in all 3 lakes is poor to terrible compared to oceanic diving. I know that outside of the 3" panfish that are fed at popular sites most fish are scared of scuba. I also know as aarchdale said its just too much work. I can pop open a beer troll all day and probably end up with the same eater fish as if I spent all day working my tail off diving. If I wanted a trophy I will wait until spring and run up roaring river/kings river and fish with chubs and catch that 14 lber along with the 10 other boats and bank fisherman that are there every night at dusk doing the same thing. Sure some guys are great at it but there's guys out there Rod and Reel fishing doing the same(they can keep 2x as many too)

The thought that one rouge spearfishermen is shooting all those record walleye is outlandish. The thought that we should not allow spearfishing due to it even worse. 

If that's the case then lets get rid of bass tournaments because there's bad apples in those circuits. Cheating and lying not to mention all the fish they relocate.

Let's not allow guides because there out there making money on a public fishery.

Let's not allow wade fishing or creek fishing because people leave trash or get sloppy drunk and cause a ruckus on gravel bars. 

Get rid of cat fishermen. Trot lines and jug lines litter the shores and heck its too easy.

No more keeping fish at all because well I want to go back to catching record size everything.

Artificial lures only because everything else is too easy.

Actually lets just completely do away with public access because there's a very small sub-sect of people that do bad thing. 

Better in fact we do away with the dams we can get rid of those pesky wake boats and the pleasure crowd.

It will get rid of all those dock owners too. They don't own that water watch it go right down the Mississippi when those dams are gone.

Forget deer hunting with rifles/compound bows. Fair chase em like the original Native Americans did with a spear. If you cant run all day to keep up with a whitetail to bad go buy your food.

Get rid of trapping its not humane. 

Coyotes are the same family as my house dog. Why do we continue to shoot them? Man's best friend. Outlaw Coyote hunting.

Where do we stop? Do you have to own a lake to have access? Have land to be able to hunt?

We live in the midwest of what I believe is the greatest country in the world. In an area, where I can drive 2 hours and have more hunting/fishing opportunities than in my opinion anywhere in this country outside maybe Alaska. Maybe I'm short sighted and I haven't been everywhere but I grew up here and had every opportunity to leave and I didn't.

MDC and AGFC do from time to time screw up and miss something. Could they be better? Sure everyone could but my idea of better and MoCarp's idea of better are different so the question remains how do they balance that difference? 

The fact still remains that in our local lakes, I can go catch a lunch and still have an opportunity at a record sized fish be it trout, walleye, striper, or long ear sunfish. You can think those days are long gone but the fact remains people catch trophy sized fish every year from these lakes and they largely go unreported. Heck there's been half a dozen claims in 2 threads on sunfish of people that have caught a record. I hope they never report them. These lakes cant stand being inundated with all those trophy sun fishermen.

Would I like to have a lake full of double digit walleye heck yeah I would but it just doesn't happen. Sure 1988 was great I guess, I wasn't alive but your parents probably said 1945 was great. Their parents probably said 1895 was great and on and on. It seems we never revert back to the old ways that were supposedly so great.

If you want to talk about sensible limits on bow fishing which is what you're really, really, really, upset about then go for it. Frankly you would probably find most people here, Bow fishermen included, want something like that why? At the end of the day, EVERYONE wants to enjoy the outdoors and the activities we love and make sure they are sustainable for future generations. However doomsday, the worlds ending, look at all the fishing decimation going on in other places spam, doesn't as Dale Carnegie would say win friends and influence people. At least not, the masses of people on this board.

[snagged in outlet 3]

Lately my daughter and I have been thinking of taking up scuba.  I think it would fascinating to see areas where I catch fish to see exactly what it is down there that draws fish to the same spots all the time.  In fact I've always wondered tourney guys wouldn't take up scuba for that reason..

 

 

[Huntingducks117]

10 hours ago, MoCarp said:

It is well documented the detrimental effects of spearfishing in saltwater,  it was responsible for the ban on some of the larger grouper species, if spearfishing can fish down oceanic species, its reasonable to expect it wouldn't take as much to effect a highland reservoir like beaver or Bullshoals

Mic Drop...? hardly,

You're comparing Apples to Oranges.  All of the articles you referenced are dealing with saltwater reef fishes.  I can see how those fisheries can be decimated in a non regulated reef (no seasons, night fishing, unlimited visibility, no length limits, no creel limits,  and where 10%+ of anglers are fishing for subsistence or job wages. Most of the articles you referenced call for more regulation, not a complete ban. 

That's completely different than Bull Shoals, Beaver, and Norfork where they are already heavily regulated.  There are spearfishing seasons, closed species (no black bass), length limits, creel limits (1/2 the rod and reel limit), no night fishing, and limited visibility (right now you can't see much past 5 foot in a lot of areas).  Additionally, anglers are doing it for recreation, not subsistence, and make up a very insignificant portion of the total anglers.  Your argument about going down and shooting giant fish at will is irrelevant and speaks to your lack of experience in the matter.   

[Huntingducks117]

12 minutes ago, snagged in outlet 3 said:

Lately my daughter and I have been thinking of taking up scuba.  I think it would fascinating to see areas where I catch fish to see exactly what it is down there that draws fish to the same spots all the time.  In fact I've always wondered tourney guys wouldn't take up scuba for that reason..

 

 

You guys need to do it.  Diving in the lakes around areas you like to fish is amazing and eye opening. 

[Quillback]

17 minutes ago, snagged in outlet 3 said:

Lately my daughter and I have been thinking of taking up scuba.  I think it would fascinating to see areas where I catch fish to see exactly what it is down there that draws fish to the same spots all the time.  In fact I've always wondered tourney guys wouldn't take up scuba for that reason..

 

 

I have a buddy (OA member Jeb) that took the training to get certified.  He did it on Beaver lake.  He said on the clear end of the lake, they didn't see very many fish, but he did say that you can sit still, pick up a couple of pebbles, click them together and a smallmouth or two will show up to take a look.  After hearing that, whenever I am using a c-rig for smallies, I always rig it with a brass clicker and bead, and I'll shake it to call them in.

Jeb did say that mid-lake visibility is not good, you dive down to 20 feet or so and it's tough to see, further than a couple of feet away.

After seeing the post on underwater drones, that may be the way to go to check out bass habitat.  

[snagged in outlet 3]

The videos they show at the dive desk at State Marina are pretty cool.  They show lots of different species. 

Side note.............The dive shop can you tell the depth they are seeing the most fish.

[Devan S.]

1 minute ago, Quillback said:

I have a buddy (OA member Jeb) that took the training to get certified.  He did it on Beaver lake.  He said on the clear end of the lake, they didn't see very many fish, but he did say that you can sit still, pick up a couple of pebbles, click them together and a smallmouth or two will show up to take a look.  After hearing that, whenever I am using a c-rig for smallies, I always rig it with a brass clicker and bead, and I'll shake it to call them in.

Jeb did say that mid-lake visibility is not good, you dive down to 20 feet or so and it's tough to see, further than a couple of feet away.

After seeing the post on underwater drones, that may be the way to go to check out bass habitat.  

I did my certification at Beaver as well. I know diving off the scuba park there are tons of little sun fish that follow you around. People feed them so their looking for a meal and they are relatively easy to catch by hand. We did see a couple small mouth pretty small maybe 10". In the water, they are almost the same color as the bottom with all the silt add in you only have 5-7 feet of what I would call true visibility(seeing items that are roughly the same color not seeing white against a dark background) and they are pretty hard to see they certainly didn't hang around like the sunfish. We did the clicking the pebbles together and it got the sunfish going pretty good. 

I could have basically sat in 20' of water with a bag of Doritos, bread, or hot dogs and fed sunfish all day.  

We did have a small school of whites swim by really fast. They are up in the water column silver colored and easier to see but they were moving fast.