Border Lakes permit

[Flysmallie]

1 hour ago, Al Agnew said:

"Impounded" means not flowing.  So whatever level the lake is, you could only fish as far as the first riffle, seems to me.  Might be a gray area in enforcement, but no way you could fish well up into the river sections of rivers like the Kings or James on the permit.  There might be a stretch of a couple miles above the slack water of the lake that an agent would let you slide, but they could also ticket you as soon as you got up into noticeable current.  So either don't fish in the rivers above the lakes or pay for the state permit.

Not correct. Table Rock Lake begins on the James at the Y Bridge in Galena. 

[fishinwrench]

If there is a boundary line then I think it would have to be determined by maximum flood pool elevation.   

I know for certain that you are still technically (and legally) on Lake of the Ozarks as long as you are below 660.01 regardless of how far up a creek you might be, or whether or not the water is moving.

[dan hufferd]

I think the border lakes permit for Tablerock extends only to Houseman.(Beaver tail waters) Evidently there is a defined boundary in some areas. Probably defined by what is "lake boundary." 

[BilletHead]

8 hours ago, Flysmallie said:

Not correct. Table Rock Lake begins on the James at the Y Bridge in Galena. 

 

4 hours ago, fishinwrench said:

If there is a boundary line then I think it would have to be determined by maximum flood pool elevation.   

I know for certain that you are still technically (and legally) on Lake of the Ozarks as long as you are below 660.01 regardless of how far up a creek you might be, or whether or not the water is moving.

 

1 hour ago, dan hufferd said:

I think the border lakes permit for Tablerock extends only to Houseman.(Beaver tail waters) Evidently there is a defined boundary in some areas. Probably defined by what is "lake boundary." 

                  Correct, correct, correct, 

  Lakes are assigned a level for the lake proper.  On one arm of Truman I fish Backwater can back in the stream for miles from the lake. There used to be a sign that stated where the lake ended. It did not last long,

   BilletHead

[Al Agnew]

Well, unless there is a clearly specified lake boundary both in the regulations and in signage on the lake, I don't see how they could justify giving somebody a ticket if they were still in "impounded" waters, meaning still water, even if the lake is high and backed up a long way.  ARE there specified lake boundaries clearly written in the regulations?  This could have consequences as well for anglers fishing the backed up lake waters in higher water levels during the closed season on stream bass in Missouri.  If Table Rock is high enough to run bass boats easily above the Y bridge at Galena, could you go above the bridge and keep bass in April?  

[Chief Grey Bear]

I think impounded waters equates to normal pool level. Which would be 915. Flood pool and winter pool levels are different. But they are not going to change the regulation to what ever that days pool level is. 

Im pretty sure you would get a warning. But if you're caught there again, you have no justification. Rule of thumb was lakes always extended to the first riffle. But that's not always the case either. And of course how would one know where the lake level mark would be, without it being marked. 

But as for the James, it doesn't matter what the water level is or how far up you can run a boat. There is a sign on the Y-Bridge clearly marking the beginning and ending of the lake. And this may be why they put up a sign. And I think there is another one on the White river, or some type of marker. On the Kings, the first riffle or two, are in Missouri or right at the state line, depending on what the level is. 

[Devan S.]

I don't pay attention to the daily lake level all that close but I know for a fact up the kings I can get well past the MO/AR line in a prop boat.
 

Here's the thread in which it was reference that it works much farther than pool levels. Certainly seems to be a grey area. Is there a marker up long creek/yocum creek?

[tjm]

Quote

5) Impoundments and Streams.

(A) For purposes of these rules, the arms of major hydroelectric or flood control impoundments will extend to the lake contour that is commonly referred to as conservation pool, multipurpose pool or normal pool, or to specific locations identified by posting.

Impoundment rules apply to all other bodies of water impounded by dams and to natural lakes not permanently connected to flowing streams. Stream fishing rules apply above in-stream structures that do not elevate water levels above the stream’s high bank and that do not regulate water flow.

Pretty plain that the conservation pool elevation is the determination unless there is a sign.  3CSR 10-6.405

[Old plug]

On 2/17/2019 at 11:31 PM, fishinwrench said:

Pretty sure that's the way it works on the Mississippi River.    As far as you can get by boat, regardless of what state you're in.    

Been many years since I haunted the Mississippi up around Clarksville. Back then you could fish the river from  bank to bank. You just could not tie up or git out ofter boat and fish from the bank.The sloughs and shoots were also off limits 

[tjm]

I don't know what we can do in other states along the Mississippi, but people from other states can fish Mo. backwaters, as defined:

(5)  Backwater:  Any  flowing  or  non-flowing water lying exclusively within the floodplain of a river and connected to that river at any water level below official flood stage, as designated by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers for the portion of the river where backwater is  occurring.  Backwater  shall  not  include tributary  streams  and  ditches,  but  may include side channels, chutes, sloughs, bayous, oxbows, and blew holes.

I would think that they would reciprocate, but those waters don't matter to Ar. or the White River Border Lakes permit.  I think the rules on the Mississippi, St. Francis and Missouri Rivers may have changed in 1995.