Columbus Statue Removed

[SpoonDog]

Define abstract poverty. 

[moguy1973]

1 hour ago, Terrierman said:

Nuance sir, try it sometime, you might just like it.

Oh I agree.  I was just stating these people that want these statues and pictures removed have to look at the whole picture if they are going to what they are doing. They can’t just pick a chose who were the bar people and who were good. If they don’t, their attempts at making a point will mean nothing. 

[tjm]

Doesn't a person show a bias towards bigotry by mere use of the term "racism"?  admission that there are  "races" of people points out that there are inherent differences that preclude  any attempt to establish any equality, for an apple can never be equal to a peach.  Only when terms like race and racism are no longer in use  can we as a people begin to lose our bigotries as "tribes".  Our government fosters cultural division and ill will by asking on every turn "what race are you?" - the only acceptable answer should be "American" (no hyphen) or "other".

[top_dollar]

15 hours ago, SpoonDog said:

I just like the irony.

What was the name of the chief Christopher Columbus met? What was his wife's name? His father's name?  How did the dynasty come into being, how long had it existed?  Did they even have a dynasty, or some other form of government? What were their holidays? What were their gods? What language did they speak? How did their economy function? Who were their heroes? What statues did they erect?  What did they eat? What did they grow? Who were their enemies? Who were their allies? 

I don't know, and you don't either, largely because Christopher Columbus and folks like him were so wildly successful at erasing their history.  Yeah, they kidnapped people.  Enslaved them. Murdered them.  They defaced and destroyed temples, religious and military monuments,  burned books, tapestries, art, and cultural objects, looted homes, palaces, and graves, prohibited the speaking of native language and the practicing of native religion.  If erasing history is bad, Christopher Columbus isn't the hill you want to die on. 

That's the irony.  If you think what protestors are doing today is beyond the pale, I wish you could've seen what Christopher Columbus did.

Great point. 

[tjm]

14 hours ago, SpoonDog said:

Define abstract poverty. 

A ten episode TV show.

[tjm]

16 hours ago, SpoonDog said:

I just like the irony.

What was the name of the chief Christopher Columbus met? What was his wife's name? His father's name?  How did the dynasty come into being, how long had it existed?  Did they even have a dynasty, or some other form of government? What were their holidays? What were their gods? What language did they speak? How did their economy function? Who were their heroes? What statues did they erect?  What did they eat? What did they grow? Who were their enemies? Who were their allies? 

I don't know, and you don't either, largely because Christopher Columbus and folks like him were so wildly successful at erasing their history.  Yeah, they kidnapped people.  Enslaved them. Murdered them.  They defaced and destroyed temples, religious and military monuments,  burned books, tapestries, art, and cultural objects, looted homes, palaces, and graves, prohibited the speaking of native language and the practicing of native religion.  If erasing history is bad, Christopher Columbus isn't the hill you want to die on. 

That's the irony.  If you think what protestors are doing today is beyond the pale, I wish you could've seen what Christopher Columbus did.

Columbus didn't do any of that, the guy had three ships not much bigger than boats you see on the local lakes and a handful of starving sailors. That other stuff came later when the politicians arrived. Columbus only got lost, managed to find his way home and drew a bad map. Kinda like if I started to KC, ended up in Memphis and told people I got there on N Highway.

History has always been written by the conquerors, from their viewpoint and to match their agenda, our new history will show that we have joined the rainbow universe and adopted Esperanto  as our official language in our evolving one world hive  and our descendants reading about events of this century or the last one will believe it all to be fiction. 

[SpoonDog]

8 hours ago, tjm said:

Doesn't a person show a bias towards bigotry by mere use of the term "racism"?  admission that there are  "races" of people points out that there are inherent differences that preclude  any attempt to establish any equality, for an apple can never be equal to a peach.  Only when terms like race and racism are no longer in use  can we as a people begin to lose our bigotries as "tribes".  Our government fosters cultural division and ill will by asking on every turn "what race are you?" - the only acceptable answer should be "American" (no hyphen) or "other".

Apples aren't a type of peach.  Black people are a type of people.  If we have to reduce people to fruit, you're arguing the largely cosmetic differences between clingstone and freestone are irreconcilable.  I think that's a pretty extreme position.  We can acknowledge they're different types of peaches AND acknowledge they're still both peaches.

Acknowledging differences isn't racist.  Using those differences to justify bias and discrimination is racist.  "That person is a black person" isn't racist.  "I'm not hiring that person because they're a black person" is racist.  You can acknowledge the difference without using the difference to discriminate against them. 

I think the idea that differences "preclude any attempt to establish any equality" is defeatist and wrong-headed.  As a society, we've overcome bias before.  Ask Irish-Americans. 

[tjm]

apples and peaches are fruits. differences absolutely prohibit equality.  People are people and to emphasize their differences is bigotry, wrongheaded is attempting to disguise bigotry under "equal opportunity".

My guess is 98% or more of the people in the USA claiming to be black have a good portion of European genetics. Many of them aren't even dark brown and in 70  years I've only seen about a dozen that could be called black, it is an artificial construct to further bigotry and create civil unrest so that we perceive a need for greater government involvement and more central control.  Manipulation of the masses through propaganda.  

[tjm]

1 hour ago, SpoonDog said:

.  Ask Irish-Americans. 

If a hyphen is used it makes them non- American.

[BilletHead]

                    God created all of us. And that being said genetics show we are all also out of Africa. Flame away boys I am in an I don't really care mood today