First Float

[tjm]

 

53 minutes ago, BilletHead said:

Let the Gods decide"!

As long as there is no more trout being stocked for the bass to eat, and as long as the godly sportsmen allow it to happen. But anglers have a history of pressuring wildlife agencies into doing what the anglers want, often using the $$$ as a scientific reason. Witness stocking of black bass in lakes to support the tournament fishing industry.

Actually I'd favor a bounty on both invasive fish and the removal of all dams, let the Gods manage that river.   Periodic floods should be taken as beneficial thing rather than a catastrophe,  it was only through periodic flood and drought that these streams developed as they are.

[ColdWaterFshr]

38 minutes ago, tjm said:

 

As long as there is no more trout being stocked for the bass to eat, and as long as the godly sportsmen allow it to happen. But anglers have a history of pressuring wildlife agencies into doing what the anglers want, often using the $$$ as a scientific reason. Witness stocking of black bass in lakes to support the tournament fishing industry.

Actually I'd favor a bounty on both invasive fish and the removal of all dams, let the Gods manage that river.   Periodic floods should be taken as beneficial thing rather than a catastrophe,  it was only through periodic flood and drought that these streams developed as they are.

Agreed, but the flood of 2017 on the NFOW was WAY more than just a periodic flood.  They said it was 1,000 year flood I believe.  It was a catastrophe.  And though the river is healing, it won't be quite the same for a good long while.

[tjm]

1000 years is period

A river should never stay stay the same from season to season nor from year to year, if not for those spectacular floods changing the course of rivers, the Ozarks would be flat land cut by canyons, there would be no hollers nor valleys and without those we'd have no hills. 

[MObassin95]

I don’t think a bounty on Stripers would be a bad thing. Depending on whether it would actually work. If the Stripers only affected the trout I wouldn’t care so much. Invasive species vs invasive species. But the Smallmouth heavily rely on crawfish for food, and the invasive stripers definitely compete with the Smallies for them. 

I think man has screwed up the NFOW ecosystem too much for us to just let nature take back over. Things are completely out of whack. There’s things we should do, within reason, to alleviate some of the mistakes. 

[fishinwrench]

7 hours ago, MObassin95 said:

I don’t think a bounty on Stripers would be a bad thing. Depending on whether it would actually work. If the Stripers only affected the trout I wouldn’t care so much. Invasive species vs invasive species. But the Smallmouth heavily rely on crawfish for food, and the invasive stripers definitely compete with the Smallies for them. 

I think man has screwed up the NFOW ecosystem too much for us to just let nature take back over. Things are completely out of whack. There’s things we should do, within reason, to alleviate some of the mistakes. 

As Al pointed out, a large section of the NFOW is too cold for Smallmouth, so the introduction of Trout was a solid decision that most should approve of.   

Now in all reality there was NO JUSTIFIABLE REASON to stock stripers in Norfork lake.....or any other freshwater fishery for that matter.   When they did it here on LO they claimed it was to help control the numbers of large gizzard shad.....which was a crock of BS for a number of reasons.    Every new generation of fisheries/wildlife biologists feel that they have to come up with something they can hang their hat on.   And most of those hat racks turn out to be bad decisions.    This is why I carry such animosity towards "biologists".....and it's not just the ones in the fisheries departments.     They ALL do it.   

Hell, some here won't buy meat or vegetables from a commercial grocery store, and the reason they won't is because biologists jacked things up BADLY.     Right?     

Don't even get me started on the biologists you all are trusting with your "health care".   

[tjm]

1 hour ago, fishinwrench said:

As Al pointed out, a large section of the NFOW is too cold for Smallmouth,

How cold is that? and what makes it that cold? The SMB is native to the Great Lakes region  and the Hudson Bay drainage, I'd have thought they were fairly cold hearty.

[fishinwrench]

1 hour ago, tjm said:

How cold is that? and what makes it that cold? The SMB is native to the Great Lakes region  and the Hudson Bay drainage, I'd have thought they were fairly cold hearty.

I don't pretend to know the specific numbers, but I know that in the Niangua, Current, Meramec, and other rivers with significant springs flowing into them that the water below for quite a few miles is never that good for Smallmouth..... except for in the coldest part of winter when that's actually the WARMEST water they can find.   

In my personal experience it seems that smallmouth are undeniably more active in 85+° water than largemouth are.  Especially during the middle of the day with a scorching sun overhead.....A smallie will still crush a fast moving topwater bait under those conditions.  Whereas a LM will be laying in the deepest/darkest shady spot acting like it's half-dead.  

The water directly below large springs is prime habitat for Trout, Suckers, (and apparently Stripers) for most of the calendar year. 

And the smallmouth and goggleeye that flock to springs in the winter are NOT fish from way down below, they are fish from ABOVE the spring confluence that have moved DOWN.

[snagged in outlet 3]

8 hours ago, fishinwrench said:

Hell, some here won't buy meat or vegetables from a commercial grocery store, and the reason they won't is because biologists jacked things up BADLY.     Right?     

Don't even get me started on the biologists you all are trusting with your "health care".   

Amen!!!!

[tjm]

Interesting, stuff I've read has indicated SMB prefer water temperatures in the mid-60s to mid-70s, while largemouth bass  prefer  water temps in the upper 70s to mid 80s. I think Ozark springs run in high 50s, ~58F  maybe. Any place a few yards from the actual spring should be in the 60s in summer.

My limited experience has made me think that SMB are just always more active and more nomadic than LMB and that SMB are more likely to be sight hunters while LMB are ambush hunters more often triggered by sound than sight.  But, I've only fished for them in moving water and have never fished for real SMB, only the Neosho, strain which might behave differently. Where I lived in the east the  only black bass were LMB (introduced) and they were very predictable and relatively easy to catch, unlike my experience in the Elk drainage where I rarely catch a LMB over 11" but have caught quite a few larger Neosho bass, which I would have thought equally active at all temperatures above the high 40s as long as the light is right. I'd have guessed them to be more crepuscular, and LMB to be more nocturnal, but then I haven't fished much   during the middle of the day with a scorching sun overhead. I'd have also guessed that SMB (based on the Neosho strain) fed more on top than LMB in general.

The temperature thing surprises me, with LMB being southern  and SMB being northern naturally.

I wonder if that avoidance of cooler water is not the SMB intolerance but that of the local forage fish. 

[fishinwrench]

5 hours ago, tjm said:

Interesting, stuff I've read has indicated SMB prefer water temperatures in the mid-60s to mid-70s, while largemouth bass  prefer  water temps in the upper 70s to mid 80s

Yeah I've read all that stuff too.   

At some point you gotta stop believing everything you read, (including the stuff that I write 😂) at least until you can confirm it in real life.