MDC Public Comment Meetings - Part 2

[Mitch f]

BTW, interesting observations from the meeting at Powder Valley. MOSmallies and I were speaking with a fisheries biologist for a good 30 minutes. MOSmallies brought up the subject of catch and release only as a suggestion on a small stretch of stream, for a kind of experiment. They said that this has already been done on Courtois creek. He informed us that the results were an increase in the number of 12-15 inch fish. It also slowed the growth rate of all fish, and actually decreased the number of big fish. Paul suggested to try a bigger river for this study. 

 Another interesting "fact" he told us was according to the records, a smallmouth's life expectancy is only 18", this is equivalent to a 75 year old man. He also said a 20" fish should be the fish of a lifetime and is equivalent to a man being 100 years old. I really think that is crazy. There are more 20" fish in the river than he knows. Problem is, I know we could have many more.

[Gavin]

Thanks Dan, hoped to make it but was down with a nasty sinus infection. Mitch, I don't think that MDC samples many 20" fish on their shock surveys so the assume the are unicorns. Think it's more likely that there is a flaw in the sampling model, wrong locations, wrong drain ages, etc. The Courtouis is dink factory little trickle. Barely floatable in late summer. I would not compare it to any of the good stretches on the Gasconade, Meramec, or Niangua that hold ten times the volume. Apples and Oranges, IMO. Have never seen the results of the 1-18" regulation on the G.Nade our James published in a publically available report. Has Anyone?

[Mitch f]

Thanks Dan, hoped to make it but was down with a nasty sinus infection. Mitch, I don't think that MDC samples many 20" fish on their shock surveys so the assume the are unicorns. Think it's more likely that there is a flaw in the sampling model, wrong locations, wrong drain ages, etc. The Courtouis is dink factory little trickle. Barely floatable in late summer. I would not compare it to any of the good stretches on the Gasconade, Meramec, or Niangua that hold ten times the volume. Apples and Oranges, IMO. Have never seen the results of the 1-18" regulation on the G.Nade our James published in a publically available report. Has Anyone?

Totally agree Gavin! They considered the Courtois the most studied stream with the most data, that's how they came up with their conclusions.

[joeD]

What is left to study for Pete's sake? If there wasn't a Missouri Smallmouth Alliance, would our regulations be significantly different? Look at the Wildlife Code from 1996. Look at the 2015 Wildlife Code. There isn't that much difference. There is certainly no difference in enforcement, which is basically non existent.

For 20 years, it is talk talk talk discussion discussion discussion meeting meeting meeting. For what?  There is absolutely no incentive for a rotating and turnstile government bureaucracy to change a code that is already in place and disrupt a comfortable atmosphere of paper shuffling with no real intent to change anything.

Really. How many studies have been done? How many "white papers" and "proposed changes"  and town hall meetings? 

The bottom line. 

Nothing. Has. Changed.

"We appreciate your interest and zeal for smallmouth fishing in our beautiful state. Your interest and commitment will be noted as we go forward in the 21st Century in our advocacy for exceptional outdoor opportunities for all citizens who choose to utilize our outstanding natural resources."

Thank you for coming. Have a nice day!

 

[Gavin]

Courtouis creek? Really? Best ever out of there was only 17.5" and I've fished it off and on for over 40 years. It is anecdotal at best, but I've been catching 18"+ pretty regularly since I ditched the creek mentality and moved on to bigger waters....and I'm fishing less. Go figure. Go where the fish are. Joe your zeal is admirable, but it's not time to get out the tar and feathers. Have lots of feathers, no tar at the moment.

[fishinwrench]

Well hey, he IS a biologist !      

Seriously, that has to be the biggest phoney-baloney job in existence.  I'm sorry, but for the love of Pete.....  

The stuff that they know is either worthless or wrong 99.9% of the time.   Drives me crazy.

[Smalliebigs]

After talking to Mitch and Paul and hearing what actual  biologist told them, I really don't know how you sat there without  laughing  at these people. The MDC is not gonna change anything they are ignorant to the large bass we catch, they think they are Unicorns. If they actually  said that to Mitch and Paul honestly  I am soooo glad my wife had to work later and I didn't  go and listen to their pack of BS.Joe is right nothing different  here sir please move along and don't  forget to buy your fishing  license  and fishing  tackle thank you.....next

Please!!!!!.....extending  the trophy bass area back up to where the trophy MDC godfish area is????? WTF.....in a BS attempt  to protect the fish that migrate there in the winter? ?? Those fish already have protection  there....they are a joke plain and simple.

How about get out of your trucks and do some sting operations in between public ramps at night during  gigging  season.

[joeD]

Deer season. Busy. 

[Gavin]

Yes...Deer season. We have so few. Could kill a ton of deer on my commute through Ladue. Lots of Turkey too. See a ton between Tilles and Lindbergh to the east & west. North of Manchester, South of Clayton. 8 Turks and 4 deer today.

[SpoonDog]

What happened in the last couple months that made quality smallmouth go from rare enough to need special, stricter regs to waayyyy more abundant than MDC realizes?  

 

If growth did slow in courtois over time I'd be genuinely curious to see those results & see if they compare with population shifts in the Jacks Fork and Gasconade, for example.