Falcon Rods Quick Note for Fathers Day

[snagged in outlet 3]

Applied mathematics or Engineering Management.  She has talked to several top 10 rated engineering and math colleges.

One smart college rep told her it comes down to a few things.

Rural or urban setting.  Small or large school.  Close to home or far away.

She's been to S and T twice and several of their recruiting deals here in St Louis.  She said she doesn't want to look at any more.  She likes the school, the majors offered, the track record of past student earnings after college and the attention to academics.  I must say they were the only school that talked about study groups and getting the students used to a heavy class load.

[vernon]

19 hours ago, Champ188 said:

He was talkin' about football, Vernon, in which case KU's last five years' cumulative record is 9-51. Missouri's is 41-24 and Arkansas' is 33-30 over that same period, both of which include the rigors of SEC play.

I was responding to the film clip of the kid at the Stanford NCAA tournament game.  Nonetheless, I think MU football is about to head into a similar abyss.  It ain't easy to fix something that messed up.  We know all about it!

[abkeenan]

22 minutes ago, vernon said:

I was responding to the film clip of the kid at the Stanford NCAA tournament game.  Nonetheless, I think MU football is about to head into a similar abyss.  It ain't easy to fix something that messed up.  We know all about it!

While things look bleak for MU football for this year and maybe a few subsequent years.....NO WAY will it be even CLOSE to KU football. They were 0-12 last year and have 7 wins combined the 4 seasons for cripes sake. It's actually sad how far the Jayhawks have fallen since Mangino had them at not only a respectable team but top 25. I was at the Border War @ Arrowhead in 2007 (as well as many more) when it was #2 vs #3 and that was just the best atmosphere I think I have even been too at a sporting event. Just awesome. Wish they would bring back the KU vs MU rivalry games as a non-con game (both football and basketball). The KU football program is now borderline not even D1 worthy at this point. A lot of D2 schools would crush them. That isn't going to be the case with MU. Barry Odom appears to be a VERY good coach and similar to Pinkel in that he is a players coach. Players like playing for him. I think he will turn the mess and program around quicker than you might imagine.

Our basketball program is basically the mirror image of KU football. Just in shambles and hard to see any light at the tunnel....which is depressing. So I do sympathize with KU football fans in that regard. But at least Self and the boys are still a CBB powerhouse. It's all in good fun and ribbing in the end. No ill will intended.

[vernon]

1 hour ago, abkeenan said:

While things look bleak for MU football for this year and maybe a few subsequent years.....NO WAY will it be even CLOSE to KU football. They were 0-12 last year and have 7 wins combined the 4 seasons for cripes sake. It's actually sad how far the Jayhawks have fallen since Mangino had them at not only a respectable team but top 25. I was at the Border War @ Arrowhead in 2007 (as well as many more) when it was #2 vs #3 and that was just the best atmosphere I think I have even been too at a sporting event. Just awesome. Wish they would bring back the KU vs MU rivalry games as a non-con game (both football and basketball). The KU football program is now borderline not even D1 worthy at this point. A lot of D2 schools would crush them. That isn't going to be the case with MU. Barry Odom appears to be a VERY good coach and similar to Pinkel in that he is a players coach. Players like playing for him. I think he will turn the mess and program around quicker than you might imagine.

Our basketball program is basically the mirror image of KU football. Just in shambles and hard to see any light at the tunnel....which is depressing. So I do sympathize with KU football fans in that regard. But at least Self and the boys are still a CBB powerhouse. It's all in good fun and ribbing in the end. No ill will intended.

Dang it, abkeenan, I'm not accustomed to dealing with MU fans that have a sense of perspective!  You done made me feel bad about my comments!  I do still tend to disagree with you about the future of MU football though.  Until you've lived through what we have experienced with KU football you just can't understand how it can get so bad so fast.  I don't really have an opinion regarding Odom's coaching ability although I do think it's pretty evident that they "settled" for him kind of like they did for Kim Anderson and look how that's working out.  Nonetheless, the saddest part of it all is that it typically has very little to do with the ability of the coach or coaches or any of the other football/basketball subject matter experts.  It has to do with the know nothing, authoritative, ego driven administrators who put themselves above the overall good of any given program.  In our case it was Lew Perkins.  Not sure you guys can pin it on any one guy but there was a group of non football geniuses that put you guys where you're at now.  I'll never believe that Pinkel would have retired if not for the meddling higher ups that decided one lousy million dollars was worth giving in to the "protesters".  Forfeit the BYU game, eat the million and tell the do-gooders to find somewhere else to protest/play and y'all would have been just fine.  Having the inmates running the asylum ain't no better than letting than letting the money guys make football/basketball decisions.  Combine the two and oh, boy.  We were just super lucky to get Bill Self after our other resident genius, Al Bohl, ran off Roy Williams.

Just imagine if MU had hired Self instead of Quinn Snyder!  Oh my God, I almost fainted there for a second.

I'm sure with you on the 2007 season - that was some good stuff.  Can't imagine it ever happening again in my lifetime but it was great at the time.  Good luck to you guys - you deserve better.  I have some longtime close friends that are super loyal lifetime MU fans that have just been gutted by the recent goings on and I take no satisfaction from that.  Like you said, good fun and ribbing is what it's all about and ruining peoples lives ain't that.  

It really is sad that I don't hardly even think about MU sports anymore.  Not much attention or coverage in the KC area since they left and no reason to really care one way or another these days since there's no common ground left.  Wait till we get to a few 24 team super conferences and there won't be much reason to care at all about any of it.  Eventually, money ruins everything.

Now, back to fishing.  I just ordered a Falcon swim/jig rod so this thread didn't stray all THAT far off the grid!  Thanks guys.

[huntest]

I have been following KU athletics since the late 50s. I feel qualified and justified in my rather harsh view of the football program. If there was ever a meaningful, effective football culture at KU it was fleeting and temporary.

Whether it was Jack Mitchell, Pepper Rogers, Mike Gottfried, Glen Mason, or Mark Mangino there has never been the level of support needed to keep and build football momentum. Roy Williams did his share of undermining support for the other althletic programs with his single minded "aw shucks" basketball mentality. The AD Bob Frederick was his enabler.

We learned the hard way that a storied basketball tradition takes a distant back seat to a storied football program when it comes to negotiating with the networks for broadcast contracts. 

If KU wants to get serious about football, they will need to get an athletic director that has the experience, knowledge and connections to give it any chance of success. So far he has made 3 serious hiring blunders. This is a huge challenge, while keeping the basketball program top 5.

Very, very difficult to do but Self is the team player needed to help where he can. The football staff is, at present, a cluster of calamity. 

[abkeenan]

1 hour ago, vernon said:

Dang it, abkeenan, I'm not accustomed to dealing with MU fans that have a sense of perspective!  You done made me feel bad about my comments!  I do still tend to disagree with you about the future of MU football though.  Until you've lived through what we have experienced with KU football you just can't understand how it can get so bad so fast.  I don't really have an opinion regarding Odom's coaching ability although I do think it's pretty evident that they "settled" for him kind of like they did for Kim Anderson and look how that's working out.  Nonetheless, the saddest part of it all is that it typically has very little to do with the ability of the coach or coaches or any of the other football/basketball subject matter experts.  It has to do with the know nothing, authoritative, ego driven administrators who put themselves above the overall good of any given program.  In our case it was Lew Perkins.  Not sure you guys can pin it on any one guy but there was a group of non football geniuses that put you guys where you're at now.  I'll never believe that Pinkel would have retired if not for the meddling higher ups that decided one lousy million dollars was worth giving in to the "protesters".  Forfeit the BYU game, eat the million and tell the do-gooders to find somewhere else to protest/play and y'all would have been just fine.  Having the inmates running the asylum ain't no better than letting than letting the money guys make football/basketball decisions.  Combine the two and oh, boy.  We were just super lucky to get Bill Self after our other resident genius, Al Bohl, ran off Roy Williams.

Just imagine if MU had hired Self instead of Quinn Snyder!  Oh my God, I almost fainted there for a second.

I'm sure with you on the 2007 season - that was some good stuff.  Can't imagine it ever happening again in my lifetime but it was great at the time.  Good luck to you guys - you deserve better.  I have some longtime close friends that are super loyal lifetime MU fans that have just been gutted by the recent goings on and I take no satisfaction from that.  Like you said, good fun and ribbing is what it's all about and ruining peoples lives ain't that.  

It really is sad that I don't hardly even think about MU sports anymore.  Not much attention or coverage in the KC area since they left and no reason to really care one way or another these days since there's no common ground left.  Wait till we get to a few 24 team super conferences and there won't be much reason to care at all about any of it.  Eventually, money ruins everything.

Now, back to fishing.  I just ordered a Falcon swim/jig rod so this thread didn't stray all THAT far off the grid!  Thanks guys.

I will agree with everything you said there other than "settling" for Odom. He was getting offers from some very respectable D1 schools and we are lucky to have landed/retained him. I think it will prove to be a very good decision when it's said and done. It is in no way the same as the "Kim Anderson" deal which was hopeless from the outset. Nice guy, old school, MIZZOU old guard, booster and crony alum favorite....old stale white guy that is completely overwhelmed by the job. After the repeated violations and under handed dealings from past coaches (Snyder, HAITH) and shady players (Ricky Clemons, Kalen Grimes, Michael Dixon, too many to list!) we went the other direction and tried to clean up the program....I get it......but it just isn't going to work with Kimmy at the helm. It's a shame, nice guy, good intentions...but a bad fit and I would bet this is his last year coaching the Tigers in 2016.

[Champ188]

 About time for Babler to weigh in. He is as knowledgeable about Mizzou sports as anyone I've ever met.  More so than a lot of today's so-called pundits. 

[vernon]

51 minutes ago, abkeenan said:

I will agree with everything you said there other than "settling" for Odom. He was getting offers from some very respectable D1 schools and we are lucky to have landed/retained him. I think it will prove to be a very good decision when it's said and done. It is in no way the same as the "Kim Anderson" deal which was hopeless from the outset. Nice guy, old school, MIZZOU old guard, booster and crony alum favorite....old stale white guy that is completely overwhelmed by the job. After the repeated violations and under handed dealings from past coaches (Snyder, HAITH) and shady players (Ricky Clemons, Kalen Grimes, Michael Dixon, too many to list!) we went the other direction and tried to clean up the program....I get it......but it just isn't going to work with Kimmy at the helm. It's a shame, nice guy, good intentions...but a bad fit and I would bet this is his last year coaching the Tigers in 2016.

You are obviously way more connected and knowledgeable than I am regarding Odom so I shall defer to you on that subject.  I honestly hope you're right.  While not an "MU" fan per se, I am definitely a huge "Missouri" fan and love the state and all that it has to offer way more than my own!  Having the flagship university be the subject of so much negative attention is not good for anyone involved at any level.

I also totally agree with all you said about basketball.  I've been a Kim Anderson fan for a long time and always pulled for him to be successful.  Kind of Jon Sunvold guy.  In fact, when he was hired at MU my brother and I both said it was gonna be a whole lot harder to root against them because we liked Anderson so much.  I find it amazing how often guys can be so good at one level but completely overwhelmed at the next as he seems to be.  It's a shame that one of the good guys can't get it done.  

As an alum and former invited walk on at KU (back when Allen Field House had a dirt floor.  Honest!) I've seen quite a bit over the years and used to live and die with Jayhawk basketball.  However, the last 6-8 yrs. have lost a lot of the emotion in me.  I'm still a fan and watch most every minute and follow the recruiting trail but the losses just don't hurt like they used to.  Too big of a business nowadays.  I'd give anything for another run with Kirk Hinrich and Nick Collison - guys that stayed all four years, graduated and played the game the right way (Sunvold-Anderson?).  While I understand you can't win or even compete for that matter without the Andrew Wiggins, Josh Jackson's and all the other one and done's that doesn't mean I have to like it.  When the season ends now it's not about "wait till next year" cause next year will be more one and done's that we know nothing about and a handful of returning role players.

Pretty similar to free agency in baseball and football.  I'm Royals and Chiefs fan and have been with them throughout all the losing and recent success but sure liked it better back when you could build success rather than buying it.  

[vernon]

1 hour ago, huntest said:

I have been following KU athletics since the late 50s. I feel qualified and justified in my rather harsh view of the football program. If there was ever a meaningful, effective football culture at KU it was fleeting and temporary.

Whether it was Jack Mitchell, Pepper Rogers, Mike Gottfried, Glen Mason, or Mark Mangino there has never been the level of support needed to keep and build football momentum. Roy Williams did his share of undermining support for the other althletic programs with his single minded "aw shucks" basketball mentality. The AD Bob Frederick was his enabler.

We learned the hard way that a storied basketball tradition takes a distant back seat to a storied football program when it comes to negotiating with the networks for broadcast contracts. 

If KU wants to get serious about football, they will need to get an athletic director that has the experience, knowledge and connections to give it any chance of success. So far he has made 3 serious hiring blunders. This is a huge challenge, while keeping the basketball program top 5.

Very, very difficult to do but Self is the team player needed to help where he can. The football staff is, at present, a cluster of calamity. 

What you said.  It was almost like the 2007 Orange Bowl season was a dream.  And waking up has made it a nightmare.  I don't go back as far as you but Bob Fredrick was my freshman basketball coach at KU and I honestly loved the guy.  One of the true gentlemen and good guys that I ever knew - at least at the level that I knew him.  However, you are absolutely correct in your assessment of his handling of the football program and "peripheral" sports.  Most of us didn't see it or realize it at the time - or maybe just didn't care because we were so desperate to not lose the basketball success that was so important to all that KU was at the time.

All we have regarding football currently is blind hope that another miracle lurks somewhere within sight around the next corner.  However, I'm afraid that David Beatty is just our version of Kim Anderson.  Without the history of course.  Rock Chalk?

[abkeenan]

First off I would like to apologize for the complete hijack of this post. Didn't mean to derail it and starting talking college sports and whatnot.

But I would like to say that I wish the NCAA would require more than just one year of CBB under a kids belt before he can be a lottery pick in the NBA. It's a touchy subject as there are different rules and requirements from sport to sport and where do you draw the line? CBB is one year, college football is 3 years and baseball is 0 years and can be drafted after their senior year of high school. Not sure how the NCAA or NFL, NBA and MLB arrived at these decisions but I'm sure they are money driven like everything else. The one and done's really do suck and make it harder for the fans to really emotionally invest in a team with guys you have watched grow and develop in 3 or 4 years and bond as a team. Those types of teams are few and far between and fleeting with each and every year going forward.