Thanks for nothing MDC

[Al Agnew]

Britt, I care about Neoshos, think that having a truly native subspecies is really cool and they are very deserving of protection...in fact, if studies show that given streams have pure or nearly pure Neoshos they should be managed to optimize those populations.  Not enough anglers know enough about them, and it would be nice to get a good education program going.

But you can't really expect the Smallmouth Alliance, with the vast majority of its members on the eastern side of the state, to get as gung ho about Neoshos in the other side of the state; they are always going to concentrate on their own smallmouth issues.  You know there was an abortive attempt to get a chapter going in the southwest, and it didn't get off the ground.  It's going to take people in the area to get things started over there, either by starting their own chapter or getting enough of them into the SMA to make it a more statewide organization.  Most of the conservation organizations in the Ozarks, whether it be Ozark Society, Sierra Club, Audubon Society, etc., have both St. Louis chapters and Springfield chapters.

I acknowledge that since MDC's surveys show that most anglers release their fish, that's a pretty good argument for there not being a need for more restrictive regs.  We can suspect that either the catch and keep people are being under-represented in the surveys, or that a relatively small number of good catch and keep anglers is having an inordinate effect on the populations, but we don't have the data to back it up.  But we do have questions, or at least I do...

1.  What exactly was different about that stretch of Current River that made it look like the special regs would have such a larger effect there than the rest of the places studied?  Was it an aberration, or were the studies of the other areas different somehow, and perhaps not as accurate?

2.  Back in the days before the present limits, MDC did an experiment, making Courtois Creek catch and release only for a period of time (don't remember offhand how long), to see what kind of effect it would have.  They didn't have the data to justify it, they used that experiment to GET data.  Now, they have data on the 1 fish, fifteen inch limit management areas.  They have data on catch and release areas.  They have a small sample of data on one fish 18 inch limits.  But...they don't have data on what closing a stretch of stream to gigging would do as far as protected big smallmouth.  They don't have data on what slot limits would do.  They don't have data on what closing the catch and keep season in the winter would do. They are making some big assumptions in asserting that those three things, and perhaps other regulation ideas, would have little effect.  Why not experiment?  Take one stretch of stream and put on one of those regulatory regimes for three years.  See what happens.

[fishinwrench]

8 hours ago, ozark trout fisher said:

Really? Smallmouth bass are extremely common across about half the US and spoonbill are rare, threatened, and prehistoric as hell. I think they are probably a little more worthy of resource allocation. 

The point being, the MDC has a lot of things to keep an eye on. Creating trophy smallmouth fisheries (if possible) is one on a dang long list of ecological and recreational objectives that have to be balanced. It's important, and potentially worth fighting for, but if you're purely judging the department based on this it's one heck of a case of tunnel vision.

Oh I don't judge them solely on that.  I'd be perfectly happy with what they did if they actually did anything.  Hell they don't even cut their own grass around here, they sub-contract it out to landscaping businesses from 60+ miles away (probably a son in law of one of the honchos). 

All I ever see them do is drive thru the accesses occasionally in their pretty new 3/4 ton truck to verify that the grass got cut.  Can't remember ever even seeing one stop and get out of the truck. I'm pretty old school and I kinda expect to see muddy tires and muddy shoes.  I've seen their awesome equipment....sitting on trailers....do they ever USE IT ?

Give me an example of something that they actually physically DO, besides move our money around, and maybe I could jump trains.   I haven't seen a MDC uniform with dirt or cuckleburrs on it in many MANY years.

[Haris122]

Can't say I'm a die hard Smallie fanatic, but I'm happy about any improvements to fish conservation, regardless of what species, especially when it involves an area I've actually had some experience with. So with that being said, though the changes aren't much to brag about, at least they're in the positive direction. And personally I'm pumped that with time the meramec red ribbon section, might become an even more fun destination than it already has been.

In general what kind of quality habitats are the new additions? I'm a little familiar with portions of the red ribbon area on the meramec but not any of the others. And, I know you guys mention the red ribbon section isn't that good compared to downstream, but if I may ask, is it poor? I know there's stretches with some pretty thin water and seemingly few resources there, so is it going to basically be only as good as it is now, just with a different makeup of species, or is there room to grow both without a lot of slowed growth to either type of fish?

[ozark trout fisher]

7 hours ago, fishinwrench said:

Give me an example of something that they actually physically DO, besides move our money around, and maybe I could jump trains. 

Enforce regulations, habitat improvement projects on any number of waters, countless research hours (did that electro fishing data just appear out of nowhere?), monitoring constantly for CWD in our deer here, reintroducing elk, rearing and stocking fish, studying black bear populations, managing forest and prairie for game and other species, working with private landowners to improve habitat, and improve riparian corridors. There are a bunch more.

But to say they do nothing is just so far off the mark I couldn't let it pass.

[Hog Wally]

Here's why I don't trust their data. 3 weeks ago I was fishing along a riffle when a boat with biologists and students came down shocking fish.  They were making a joke of it somewhat until I yelled at them a little about tossing fish in the fish in the boat like they were picking up trash   I asked them if they shocked up any big walleye. They said walleye are very rare and said no we didn't shock any up.  I looked at my brother in disbelief.  We fell down to the gravel dump and caught 2 healthy specimens immediately.  These guys are total idiots.  I'm sorry to who I might offend.  I've seen 14 year old kids with more knowledge than these supposed experts.  

[MOPanfisher]

I thought I wasn't going to play anymore, but  will make a few comments about MDC Agents.  I have worked with several over the years, I have been with them out in the boonies, removing tree stands, trying to stop/catch ATV riders.  I have pulled them out of mudholes, I have seen them muddy, sweaty and mad.  however being they in a way cops, they are required to go home, clean up, wash the truck, and put on a fresh uniform, don't want them looking unprofessional ya know.  If you are looking for them to e dirty and muddy around LOZ, I don't know what they would do except get out and roll around in the grass at an access point.

[top_dollar]

12 hours ago, ozark trout fisher said:

I would say any and all of this to you in person. I do not, under any circumstances however, utilize intimidation or veiled threats to make my point. Not how I operate.

Its not the first time he has threatened someone on OAF with violence...

[top_dollar]

55 minutes ago, Hog Wally said:

Here's why I don't trust their data. 3 weeks ago I was fishing along a riffle when a boat with biologists and students came down shocking fish.  They were making a joke of it somewhat until I yelled at them a little about tossing fish in the fish in the boat like they were picking up trash   I asked them if they shocked up any big walleye. They said walleye are very rare and said no we didn't shock any up.  I looked at my brother in disbelief.  We fell down to the gravel dump and caught 2 healthy specimens immediately.  These guys are total idiots.  I'm sorry to who I might offend.  I've seen 14 year old kids with more knowledge than these supposed experts.  

This is completely made up...

[top_dollar]

8 hours ago, fishinwrench said:

Oh I don't judge them solely on that.  I'd be perfectly happy with what they did if they actually did anything.  Hell they don't even cut their own grass around here, they sub-contract it out to landscaping businesses from 60+ miles away (probably a son in law of one of the honchos). 

All I ever see them do is drive thru the accesses occasionally in their pretty new 3/4 ton truck to verify that the grass got cut.  Can't remember ever even seeing one stop and get out of the truck. I'm pretty old school and I kinda expect to see muddy tires and muddy shoes.  I've seen their awesome equipment....sitting on trailers....do they ever USE IT ?

Give me an example of something that they actually physically DO, besides move our money around, and maybe I could jump trains.   I haven't seen a MDC uniform with dirt or cuckleburrs on it in many MANY years.

I dont think you put much effort into finding out what physical work is actually done.  You also wont believe anything you dont see with your own eyes.  Because of this, you have already made your decision, and wont be "jumping trains" under any circumstances.  Its what the majority of people do when the facts dont line up with their personal agendas, they close their eyes and open their mouth...see american politics 2016. 

 

 

[ozark trout fisher]

30 minutes ago, top_dollar said:

Its not the first time he has threatened someone on OAF with violence...

Yep.  Not that I would consider what he just said a threat, but definitely falls into the category of (failed) attempt at intimidation.