Stream access politics

[Chief Grey Bear]

And then you see empty feed bags, baling twine, bale wrappins and all sorts of things that just blow off their trucks along the roads.

[ozark trout fisher]

I find the "Well, those fishermen/canoeists/etc leave trash behind, so we ought to be able to close off access" argument unconvincing at best, and an outright strawman at worst. Two reasons:

1. The argument here is that navigable streams, and their channel are public easements, not unlike a highway. Highways are concentration points for litter. That sucks. But we aren't going to suddenly stop allowing cars to use the highway without permission of every adjacent landowner. That would make sense to exactly no one. Why exactly are waterways different?

2. Some landowners along streams are great stewards, maintain riparian corridors, etc. But MANY make the actions of a few parties look inconsequential in comparison. Ever been to the wrong stretch of Little Piney Creek towards the lower half of the blue ribbon stretch? Some of the most angler unfriendly landowners in the state around there. They also make the stream and "riparian area" perpetually look as if a nuclear blast has just occurred. I'm calling you out.  Either do a better job not ruining our streams or shut the heck up about anglers chasing the fish that are increasingly non-existent because of your efforts.

Again, that's not aimed at the folks that care and are doing things the right way. 

[Flysmallie]

If trash really is the issue then they need to come with me. I can take them to a creek that has no floaters, will never have any floaters, ever, and it's a trashy mess. I have been afraid of running into somebody's crop down in there so maybe that's what they are really worried about. 

[dan hufferd]

22 hours ago, Chief Grey Bear said:

And then you see empty feed bags, baling twine, bale wrappins and all sorts of things that just blow off their trucks along the roads.

Hey Chief remember b bluff? Even after the parking area along the bluff got turned into a ditch, people just continued to trash the place. I haven't been there in many years wonder what it looks like now? 

[Chief Grey Bear]

1 hour ago, dan hufferd said:

Hey Chief remember b bluff? Even after the parking area along the bluff got turned into a ditch, people just continued to trash the place. I haven't been there in many years wonder what it looks like now? 

I'm having a senior moment????

[Norm M]

My friends and I had permission from the land owner to fish the creek from the mouth to the end of his property line. We not only never abused the privilege but helped him while he was seining the river for bait  or picked up trash others left .

We got there one day to find all sorts of trash from fast food joints, empty booze containers and multiple piles of human excrement and male birth control devices  laying about . We were in the process of burying the rather unsavory crap and picking up the other stuff when the land owner showed up . He thanked us for our efforts but said that the piles of excrement was just too much and he was posting the land . While we were not happy about losing a fishing spot we could see his point of view . Shoot we even helped with posting the signs and putting up the gate . He was so pleased that he not only took us into town and bought us lunch but called a couple of neighbors that lived upstream and got us permission to fish up there  .

 As far as the navigable river issue is concerned , a number of us that were concerned about that issue meet with the IDNR director . We gave him copies of the national law that a national river water rights website made available to print out . He said he would give it to the dept lawyers and get back to us, still waiting for that to happen .Never got answers to follow up letters, calls or emails about the subject .

 The river I fish , the Kankakee River up in Illinois, is a navigable river by an act of congress . That was done 40 some years ago as there was a court case brought by Illinois against a neighboring state regarding their attempts to make downstream flooding even worse than it is. The good guys won that case , from what one of the lawyers told me that helped .

I have spoken to law enforcement folk on multiple levels when the issue of crossing private property below the historic high water mark when river conditions made it unsafe to stay in the river . Most of them including some CPO's said they knew nothing of the federal law regarding that right or the fact that federal law makers made the river navigable even though it has already meet the standards of navigation. Shoot we had shallow drafting commercial boat traffic that not only carried  freight but passengers from the train station to various resorts back in the day .

 I was never cited for trespass although I suspect in a couple of cases it had more to do with not wanting to do all the paperwork and appear in court for what they perceived was something they thought they shouldn't be involved in .  The rest of them told me and the land owner that it sounded reasonable that it was a law and went on their way .

[MOPanfisher]

Seems odd that the landowner wouldn't still let you have access after posting it.  Posting it merely means against trespassers, and if you have permission you are not trespassing.  I have had some similar happenings with a neighbor  except he gave me  a key to the gates at the time.  As a landowner I can fully understand why they don't appreciate the trash, junk, disrespect that some areas get, I hate to see any access lost but I understand why they do it. 

[Norm M]

 He was afraid he might be sued for discrimination if folks saw us fishing there but then he refused them permission. We didn't press the issue , figured it was better to bow out gracefully .

[MOPanfisher]

Weird, but that is his choice.  I had a discussion with a landowner in Northern MO once about letting us hunt a piece of property.  He was adamant that he would have to let everyone hunt if he let us hunt.  Tried to politely explain that he could allow or restrict whomever he wished, he could let my buddy hunt and not me. But we certainly didn't push, just thanked him and told him if he needed some strong back weak mind help to just tell the adjacent landowner we were hunting on and we would come help him anyway.  Sometimes it just doesn't work out.  He did have some nice Chariton River frontage, although we have never fished it.

[bfishn]

I watched my Dad wrestle with the matter on his 320A NoMo farm from as early as I can remember till I flew the nest. It caused him no small amount of grief. In the early-mid 60s he let anyone hunt that wanted to. We maybe had 2-3 outings a year, gates got closed and quail got shared. by the late 60s a few more appeared, cousins, buddys, whatever of our neighbors. They asked and were permitted. Then someone must have written a piece in F&S about the really big deer in Macon county, and the floodgates opened. 5 trucks from parts unknown let themselves in before daylight one opening morning. Of course the gates were left open and our cattle were heading toward the highway. Dad blew a fuse.

Then it was no access allowed. Period. Signs went up. Dad meant it. Pissed some people off.

Softy that he was, after a year or two, Dad buckled in to our best neighbor. Life was better. Then some other neighbors jumped dad at the sale barn one day over "Why can Everrett go and we can't?" Dad said OK, go ahead.

By the mid 70s the cousins and buddies started to reappear. Such is the cycle of life. The whole deal probably took a couple years of Dad's life in worry.