Stream Gages going away 7/1/17?

[Eric82]

Thanks for the info Al. I'll look into complaining to to the govenor and my state senator. i was just surprised that this was happening is all. it seems like they provide a service to a lot of folks. 15,000 a year seems odd but then again i have no idea on what it takes to up keep those.  It seems to me that the gauges in national riverways could be taken over by them?  I wonder on the other streams where there is multiple outfitters that they'd want to work to keep them going? i was just curious on info. thanks for the responses!

[Al Agnew]

Guys, you're just making stuff up. I don't know what goes into operating these gauges either, but the geological survey, unlike some government agencies, is not known for wasting a bunch of money. I think you get a lot of value for the buck with USGS products. I do know that the gauges require physical visits for recalibration after every high water event, since bottom and channel characteristics can change. They are also periodically checked for accuracy, which requires getting in the water and measuring channel profile and flow. The power source for recording and sending the info can't be indestructible and will need monitoring and maintenance as well. Geez, get off the anti-government wagon for just this once.

[Al Agnew]

While I'm on my soapbox, a few facts for your consumption:

Missouri state budget:  about $27 billion.

Missouri DNR budget: about $3.1 million.

Portion of DNR budget coming from general revenue from the state of Missouri: $10 million.

Portion of DNR budget coming from federal funds: $36 million.  (Most of that is earmarked for particular programs.)

Portion of DNR budget coming from the tenth of a percent state sales tax:  $261 million.

So, the DNR's portion of state spending:  1.1% (and that includes the federal funds and sales tax funds)

DNR portion of general funds, which is what the governor is cutting with this idea of defunding the gauges: 0.03%

Let's say that with the other guages in the state that DNR funds included, the total cost to DNR is $600,000.  That seems close to me without looking through all of them to see which ones DNR funds.  Therefore:

Percentage of state spending saved by defunding these gauges ($600,000 divided by $27 billion): 0.002%

Percentage of general revenue funds going to the DNR that would be saved ($600,000 divided by $10 million):  6%

Thanks to the sales tax, the legislature already only allocates a pittance to the DNR, which means that a pittance of your state income taxes goes to DNR.  Basically, if you pay $5000 a year in state income tax (more than most do, I think), one thin dime of that is going to fund these gauges.

Now, the gauges are something a lot of plain old people find very useful.  If the state isn't spending money on them, it'll be spending money on something else.  YOU won't save that dime, you'll just be spending somewhere else on something that may not be nearly as useful to you.

[Chief Grey Bear]

 

While I'm on my soapbox, a few facts for your consumption:

Missouri state budget:  about $27 billion.

Missouri DNR budget: about $3.1 million.

Portion of DNR budget coming from general revenue from the state of Missouri: $10 million.

Portion of DNR budget coming from federal funds: $36 million.  (Most of that is earmarked for particular programs.)

Portion of DNR budget coming from the tenth of a percent state sales tax:  $261 million.

So, the DNR's portion of state spending:  1.1% (and that includes the federal funds and sales tax funds)

DNR portion of general funds, which is what the governor is cutting with this idea of defunding the gauges: 0.03%

Let's say that with the other guages in the state that DNR funds included, the total cost to DNR is $600,000.  That seems close to me without looking through all of them to see which ones DNR funds.  Therefore:

Percentage of state spending saved by defunding these gauges ($600,000 divided by $27 billion): 0.002%

Percentage of general revenue funds going to the DNR that would be saved ($600,000 divided by $10 million):  6%

Thanks to the sales tax, the legislature already only allocates a pittance to the DNR, which means that a pittance of your state income taxes goes to DNR.  Basically, if you pay $5000 a year in state income tax (more than most do, I think), one thin dime of that is going to fund these gauges.

Now, the gauges are something a lot of plain old people find very useful.  If the state isn't spending money on them, it'll be spending money on something else.  YOU won't save that dime, you'll just be spending somewhere else on something that may not be nearly as useful to you.

Welcome to the new state of East Kansas!

Enjoy!

[fishinwrench]

Nobody's making anything up, Al. 

400 dollar toilet seats and 70.00 ink pens in state and government office's are not a myth.  

The reputation is well deserved whether it is acknowledged openly or not. 

[msamatt]

Guys,

  Matt Wier from the Missouri Smallmouth Alliance here.  I apologize in advance for the rather lengthy post which follows but I having recently participated as a stakeholder group which was involved in the process of helping re-fund one of the two gauges the Big Piney and Roubidoux Creek I have some very detailed and relevant  info to share.  

Part One:

  Here's an exceprt from an email between myself and C. Shane Barks who is the Deputy Director for the USGS Water Science Center in Rolla.  I was corresponding with him in order to invite him to be a guest speaker at our March meeting in St. Louis and am sharing it with you now because he answers some of the very questions you've asked.   I've put the cost of operating a single streamgauge in BOLD 

"I believe I have corresponded with you in the past, but it has been awhile.  Here is a brief description of what goes into the operation and maintenance of a streamgage.  To be most efficient, the streamgages are grouped into geographical areas we call "trips".  These trips are "ran" where each streamgage on the trip are visited at set intervals depending on trip location.  Do to the environment of the location of the trips and to ensure the appropriate quality of the data, some of the trips require more frequent visits (every 4 weeks) while other trips require less frequent visits (every 8 weeks).  During the site visit the hydrographer will inspect the equipment used at the streamgage to make sure it is working properly and collecting accurate data.  The data are typically collected at 15-minute intervals and transmitted hourly via satellite to the USGS office.  If there is a rain gage located at the site, it is inspected, cleaned, and at times calibrated.  A streamflow or discharge measurement is made at each site during the visit.  Additional site visits are made as needed throughout the year to troubleshoot and repair equipment, and to make discharge measurements during ranges of flow that are not experienced during routine visits such as storm events.    In the office, the real-time data are reviewed each morning to ensure the streamgages are working properly.  If a problem is suspected, then a hydrographer is sent to the site to troubleshoot and restore the equipment.  After each trip, the data records for each site are worked, checked, reviewed and approved.  During this process the discharge measurements are matched with the corresponding stage reading and used to develop stage/discharge relationship or discharge rating.  After this relationship is developed, discharge measurements continue to be made to validate the rating or shift the rating to account for hydraulic changes that take place at the site.  The ratings are used to compute incremental streamflows at each site.  These data are made available to water-resource managers and the public through the internet (http://waterdata.usgs.gov). The price of the streamgage operation and maintenance is determined on a cost-averaged basis for the whole network in the state.  Part of the reason this is done is to cover the cost of replacing equipment at a gage or to make extra measurements at a site when needed without having to go back to cooperators and request additional funding.  Currently the annual cost for operating a streamgage is $14,600.  The largest expense in the cost is labor (time in the field and office).  The next largest expense is equipment.  The equipment maintained on site at the individual streamgages can cost over $15,000 and a typical set of equipment used to make discharge measurements cost around $45,000.  Other expenses include travel cost, vehicle and boat cost, equipment repair, supplies, IT (infrastructure, database maintenance, hardware and software, access to satellite network,...) and other.   The USGS does receive some appropriated funds to operate streamgages, but not nearly enough to cover the streamgage network needed to meet the water-resources data needs in Missouri.  In-order to fund the needed network, the USGS is currently partnering with over 20 different cooperators in the state. We strive to operate the network as efficiently as possible in-order to keep the cost down and make the best use of all funds......" 

Part 2:

  Here's the body of an email I received last night from Amy Beussink, who is the Director of the USGS Water Science Center in Missouri.   

Dear Stakeholder, 

 

The USGS Missouri Water Science Center operates over 270 real-time streamgages in the State of Missouri. ­­Most of the funding required for continued operation and maintenance of this network is provided through cooperative funding partnerships between the USGS and many local, state, federal, and other entities.

 

I am writing to let you know that current funding for 49 USGS gages in Missouri will end June 30, 2017. Unless other funding sources are identified, the information from these gages will no longer be available. The attached table lists the gages in question as well as details related to each site.

 

The information provided by streamgages is used widely for many purposes, including management of the State’s water resources; protection of life and property from floods and droughts, flood plain management and regulation, agricultural operations, drinking water management; power plant operation; irrigation withdrawals; timing of wastewater discharges and reservoir releases; managing water quality and habitat; and infrastructure designs for dams, levees, bridges, and roads; and for recreation. Historical data are useful for long-term assessments such as water-supply studies, while real-time data is essential for activities that require rapid decisions, such as the issuing of flood warnings and flood crest predictions by the National Weather Service and the evacuations of persons in flood-prone areas.

 

We are reaching out to ask for your assistance. Please contact us if you or someone you know may be able to help to fund these important sites beginning July 1, 2017. Also, please spread the word to other interested stakeholders who may be able to provide funding or who may be able to garner additional support.

 

A map of USGS streamgage funding stability for the nation can be viewed here: 

https://water.usgs.gov/networks/fundingstability/

 

For more information, please contact:

 

Paul Rydlund, prydlund@usgs.gov, 573-308-3572

Shane Barks, csbarks@usgs.gov, 573-308-3674

Amy Beussink, ambeussi@usgs.gov, 573-308-3665

 

 

 

Very respectfully, 

 

amy

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Amy Beussink, Director

USGS Missouri Water Science Center

 

ambeussi@usgs.gov

Office   573-308-3665

Mobile  713-560-9899 

 

http://mo.water.usgs.gov/   

 

 

 

[msamatt]

Forgot to attach the .pdf list of the threatened gages so here goes 

Threatened USGS Streamgage List-Missouri 2017.pdf

[KCRIVERRAT]

Seriously? You mean to say I gotta run down to Buck Hollow from KC and jam a stick in the ground or spray paint some bridge pillars because of the Governor elect? Golly... never saw that coming...

 

[fishinwrench]

First Al says "you can thank the new Governor and the Senate body for that!"

Then he says... "y'all stop bashing the Government for once. Geeze!"

?

Al, are you getting old and shifty ?

We still hate spotted bass today, right?   Ok just checking.  ??

[MOPanfisher]

The stream gauges do provide a lot of very valuable data, and yes they are not cheap, currently our office is responsible for 4 of them. I hate to see any of them go away, but without a sponsor paying for the upkeep of them that is what is going to happen.