Size vs Quantity?

[MoCarp]

9 hours ago, tjm said:

I suspect the entire hatchery and stocking program depends heavily on those 4 fish limit anglers more than it does the C&R crowd. A stocking once every 2-3 years should be all that's needed for a C&R area by full  time expert fishers. The entire basis of the trout program is put and kill. It would be interesting to survey all purchasers of permits on the subject of trophy versus take some home conditions. 500/1, 1000/1, 10000/1 in favor of meat; what's your guess? C&R anglers are ten times more vocal but I have the feeling that they all post on this forum. Take a count Huh?

 

You may overestimate the requirements to join this board, they let me join and I am both a poor fisher and less than part time, not more than 50-60 hours a year these days, from some  of the reports I read even some of the better fishers are not full time at it. My part time  experience does go back over fifty years though so it might all add up to a year so of full time fishing. Even in the years I fished 300 days a year it was part time and more about me than about dedication to conserving an invasive species (trout).

 

"If you build it they will come" game hogs are just that....I would say people will still come to Taney to fish even if they can only keep and eat 18"ers....anglers that are not "casual" angler spend a great deal more than the part time people....when you go on vacation to Branson and want to go fishing... your still going to trout fish if your from a place you don't get that opportunity...1st time I ever fished Taney was as a kid from Mobile Alabama....it won't matter one iota if the limit is 2 fish at least 18".... or...10 trout any length.....but you will get more serous anglers traveling  to Taney to catch twenty 17 3/4" with a couple of mid 20s.......its demographic 101....want fish dinners...hit up a trout park

[Phil Lilley]

There is a mindset of "catch and keep a limit" that is the vast majority of anglers on Taney, I'd say 70% or more.  Ask guides, "what's the percentage of people who want to keep a limit" and I bet's it's 8 of 10 trips or more.  I think I'll ask them and get back to you.  Be interesting.

 

[Phil Lilley]

6 minutes ago, MoCarp said:

 

"If you build it they will come" game hogs are just that....I would say people will still come to Taney to fish even if they can only keep and eat 18"ers....anglers that are not "casual" angler spend a great deal more than the part time people....when you go on vacation to Branson and want to go fishing... your still going to trout fish if your from a place you don't get that opportunity...1st time I ever fished Taney was as a kid from Mobile Alabama....it won't matter one iota if the limit is 2 fish at least 18".... or...10 trout any length.....but you will get more serous anglers traveling  to Taney to catch twenty 17 3/4" with a couple of mid 20s.......its demographic 101....want fish dinners...hit up a trout park

If I understand your point, I disagree.  At some point, people will choose to go somewhere else and spend their money.  They won't like only being able to keep 3 or 2 or 1 trout.  We lost some people because the limit went to 4, not a lot but some.  We didn't gain any new people with the "catch and keep" mindset when they dropped the limit to 4.

And it's been mentioned a couple of times Taney as being a "put and take" fishery.  It's partly that BUT with the addition of the trophy area, it's a put, grow and take fishery.  Big difference in the management of such a fishery.  With a "put and take' fishery, there's little or no consideration for growing fish bigger.

[Quillback]

Every time the Feds try and wiggle out of stocking trout on the White below Bull, the local lodges and guides rise up in arms.  As Phil says, many, if not most of their clients are people that want to fish Power Bait and catch a limit, to be followed by a shore lunch  Personally I think they've done about as good as can be expected as far as managing a fishery that can provide limits of stocker rainbows for those that want them, but yet provide some quality brown trout and an occasional nice rainbow.  I have fished for trout all over this country, Taney and Bull are pretty darn good fisheries. 

[JestersHK]

I've only been trout fishing for a short time compared to many others.  I fully admit when I first started it was catch your limit type of deal.  Had to always "limit" out on a decent stringer of fish.  After eating a ton of trout I kind of grew out of that phase.  I'll still hit a trout park up and catch my limit to put some fish in the freezer, but not nearly at the frequency I did years past.  

A few things influenced this.  Finding Taneycomo and getting away from the "parks"  and visiting other states and learning and comparing their fishery to ours.  Also fishing and talking with others here off this forum.  I've always respected the conservation side of things, but at the end of the day these are put and take fisheries.  Now I will never keep a trophy as I try to live by the rule of you keep what you kill, and who wants to eat a big ol trout compared to the delicious pan sizers.  But I also C&R so others can enjoy those big fish we are lucky enough to catch.  No need to kill a trophy when theres plenty of stockers to eat.  

Bring on the big fish though as I'm now in what I call Trophy trout mode.  I'm more fired up to go hunt big fish.  Not sure what will happen to me if I'm lucky enough to catch one... I'll then have to find out what comes next

 

[Seth]

52 minutes ago, MoCarp said:

 

"If you build it they will come" game hogs are just that....I would say people will still come to Taney to fish even if they can only keep and eat 18"ers....anglers that are not "casual" angler spend a great deal more than the part time people....when you go on vacation to Branson and want to go fishing... your still going to trout fish if your from a place you don't get that opportunity...1st time I ever fished Taney was as a kid from Mobile Alabama....it won't matter one iota if the limit is 2 fish at least 18".... or...10 trout any length.....but you will get more serous anglers traveling  to Taney to catch twenty 17 3/4" with a couple of mid 20s.......its demographic 101....want fish dinners...hit up a trout park

Taney already caters to both types of fishermen. It's called the trophy area. When I want fish to eat, I will stay below Fall Creek. If I am out to catch better quality fish, I go to the trophy area. Those fish fall within the slot limit and get put back right away after a quick picture. Even though my biggest fish have came below Fall Creek, the average size of fish that I catch is definitely better in the trophy area. If I want a fish dinner AND want the chance at catching a quality trout to take a picture of and release, Taneycomo is the place to go.

If I may ask, how often did you actually fish Taneycomo before your injury or whatever that prevents you from fishing these days? You obviously seem to be more of an expert than Phil and others who have been living there and even making a living from it for years.

[Phil Lilley]

This rainbow was caught yesterday below Fall Creek.  I did not grow up there, it grew up above Fall Creek and moved down.  This is an example of how Taney's management plan is to work.  Both catch and keep and catch and release anglers benefit.

[ruthead]

Not being argumentative but trying to learn here. How do we know this fish "grew up above Fall Creek and moved down" ?  

[MoCarp]

1 hour ago, Phil Lilley said:

If I understand your point, I disagree.  At some point, people will choose to go somewhere else and spend their money.  They won't like only being able to keep 3 or 2 or 1 trout.  We lost some people because the limit went to 4, not a lot but some.  We didn't gain any new people with the "catch and keep" mindset when they dropped the limit to 4.

And it's been mentioned a couple of times Taney as being a "put and take" fishery.  It's partly that BUT with the addition of the trophy area, it's a put, grow and take fishery.  Big difference in the management of such a fishery.  With a "put and take' fishery, there's little or no consideration for growing fish bigger.

I truly find it hard to believe people would stop coming to Taney because they can "only" keep 4 trout vs 5...would you say those you lost are older? we are only supposed to keep 2x the daily limit in the freezer.....the interesting thing to ask is;  why do people come to Taney? if they say fill the freezer full of fish then your right....the post a while back where the MDC busted people with bags and bags of over limit trout...its that mentality that hurts our sport..do we really what that? is someone that feels they deserve to fill the freezer many times beyond the legal limit...it would be my hope that the status quo isn't ever good enough and we should strive to do better..most people are reasonable...and as any business owner knows some clients are cool and other are well...you know...one of my closest friends fishes out of lilly's a lot  and he keeps and eats a lot of fish and he fishes because he loves it...eating fish is a plus not a requirement...I think the longer a fish is out of the hatchery and in the "wild" they are better eating IMHO

1 hour ago, Quillback said:

Every time the Feds try and wiggle out of stocking trout on the White below Bull, the local lodges and guides rise up in arms.  As Phil says, many, if not most of their clients are people that want to fish Power Bait and catch a limit, to be followed by a shore lunch  Personally I think they've done about as good as can be expected as far as managing a fishery that can provide limits of stocker rainbows for those that want them, but yet provide some quality brown trout and an occasional nice rainbow.  I have fished for trout all over this country, Taney and Bull are pretty darn good fisheries. 

I agree both places rock for fishing...but could we do better? and how do we get there?

1 hour ago, JestersHK said:

I've only been trout fishing for a short time compared to many others.  I fully admit when I first started it was catch your limit type of deal.  Had to always "limit" out on a decent stringer of fish.  After eating a ton of trout I kind of grew out of that phase.  I'll still hit a trout park up and catch my limit to put some fish in the freezer, but not nearly at the frequency I did years past.  

A few things influenced this.  Finding Taneycomo and getting away from the "parks"  and visiting other states and learning and comparing their fishery to ours.  Also fishing and talking with others here off this forum.  I've always respected the conservation side of things, but at the end of the day these are put and take fisheries.  Now I will never keep a trophy as I try to live by the rule of you keep what you kill, and who wants to eat a big ol trout compared to the delicious pan sizers.  But I also C&R so others can enjoy those big fish we are lucky enough to catch.  No need to kill a trophy when theres plenty of stockers to eat.  

Bring on the big fish though as I'm now in what I call Trophy trout mode.  I'm more fired up to go hunt big fish.  Not sure what will happen to me if I'm lucky enough to catch one... I'll then have to find out what comes next

 

I agree, most anglers go through a keep everything faze..I was no different.....

1 hour ago, Seth said:

Taney already caters to both types of fishermen. It's called the trophy area. When I want fish to eat, I will stay below Fall Creek. If I am out to catch better quality fish, I go to the trophy area. Those fish fall within the slot limit and get put back right away after a quick picture. Even though my biggest fish have came below Fall Creek, the average size of fish that I catch is definitely better in the trophy area. If I want a fish dinner AND want the chance at catching a quality trout to take a picture of and release, Taneycomo is the place to go.

If I may ask, how often did you actually fish Taneycomo before your injury or whatever that prevents you from fishing these days? You obviously seem to be more of an expert than Phil and others who have been living there and even making a living from it for years.

 fished the greater Taney area couple times a week...more in the winter less in spring, when I got into carping fished every weekend for 4 years and I have fish dinner every know and then

Phil knows his stuff..he should making and living on the fishery..I went to school to be a fisheries Biologist.. fell it to advertising instead lots better $.......I made my living knowing demographics.....if you want to "sell" a good service or idea you better know your client...2 schools of thought here...you can go wall mart and do it by volume...powerbait/freezers full of pan size trout....in the sales world thats picking low hanging fruit....then you have the upscale sell...less volume,  but client demand a better product....anyone can see what happens when a place goes into decline its not pretty....the question is where is the branson econoplex as far as rising or falling......I can tell you how it will play out in the end.....imagine if fish avg 20"....back in the day you could limit out on fish that size...perhaps thats why I am jaded.....I look at this from a different perspective....

[Quillback]

agree both places rock for fishing...but could we do better? and how do we get there?

I don't know that we could do better, and at the same time please everyone.  I'm happy with the way it is now, but I only fish below Bull a time or two a year.