North Fork issue

[Mitch f]

23 hours ago, Gavin said:

Broke a nice wooden paddle across an otters back years ago. Statute has run. My late friend Hank R just killed every one he ever saw with his 9mm. He was kinda scary when he got that out! 15 round clip. Pulled the trigger till it went click every time he got it out within 2-3 seconds! 

Yep that’s a little scary! 😂😂

[Gavin]

I think you were friends with Hank,  at least knew each other Mitch....Loved his Bushmills and Earl Gray Tea.  His 9MM was passed to an equally crazy bastard....Not me, but a very good friend of mine, and someone you know.

 

[Flyfisher for men]

19 hours ago, tjm said:

 

Missouri Fish Commission had a hatchery at St. Joseph, I think, and possibly others, probably the source of most Mo. stockings in the late 1800s.  I seem to recall a Federal Hatchery in St. Louis, but think they were establishing German Carp rather than trout.  It is notable too that the Feds attempted to establish salmon in Mo. (I don't recall details but think it was the Mo. River) with the intent that the salmon would travel to the Gulf and return here to spawn. Fish science of the 19th century was a bit hazy.

Awhile ago, I read an article saying the St. Joe facility was tryin to stock the salmon in the Missouri. 

I've not heard of a St Louis hatchery. Could you be thinking of the Neosho hatchery? It's founded in 1888 and was the first federal hatchery in the nation.  

[fishinwrench]

12 minutes ago, Flyfisher for men said:

Awhile ago, I read an article saying the St. Joe facility was tryin to stock the salmon in the Missouri. 

I've not heard of a St Louis hatchery. Could you be thinking of the Neosho hatchery? It's founded in 1888 and was the first federal hatchery in the nation.  

Why in the world would they have chosen Missouri for the first federal hatchery, I wonder?  

I wonder what the Missouri and Mississippi rivers were like before all of the mass agriculture.  

[tjm]

2 hours ago, Flyfisher for men said:

It's founded in 1888 and was the first federal hatchery in the nation.  

It is the oldest Federal Hatchery still in operation, not the first. Baird Hatchery on California’s McCloud River, was the first Federal fresh water hatchery in 1872. There have been Federal hatcheries in most of the states and many were not related to trout production, in fact the Neosho people have told me that the endangered sturgeon and shiners were of primary importance to them, trout were secondary and done as mitigation for the lakes damage to native fish. 

The hatchery I recall reading about in the St.L area may have been state or Federal or idk, it was a few years ago and I was interested in the importation of brown trout and common carp from Germany under the USFC and Baird, lots of records in the national archives and NOAA, some from other places, the thing that sticks is that they brought over a German fish culture expert and his assistant to run the hatchery.  What didn't stick is whether the German fish were carp or Von Behr trout.  Carp were particularly desirable at the time by the millions of new immigrants from Europe and was at the top of USFC priorities. Every farmer had carp ponds for market fish for a dozen years or so, until commercial fishing in the rivers made it unprofitable.  Carp also had the ability to adapt to lower quality water that had been caused by extreme logging.

Mo. Fish Commission (state not the same as  USFC in Mo.)  probably put as much effort into Von Behr as they  did McClouds or Pacific Salmon. Their greatest success though would be with the carp.

Abbreviated history of USFC and it's successors https://training.fws.gov/History/Articles/FisheriesHistory.html

To put the USFC in real perspective though you need to go back to the 17th/18th centuries when salted fish was the USA greatest export and look at the almost total loss of American Shad and our Atlantic salmon that had happened by the early 1800s. An overview of the shad, one can look up the references from the foot notes https://www.potomacriver.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/PotomacShadHistory201203.pdf

[Al Agnew]

All this angling history is interesting, so I did a little research on more general history.  Instead of putting it all here, I'm starting another thread in the general angling board.

[Gavin]

The St Louis Hatchery is in Forest Park, north side.  It’s full of stunted sunfish, big bass, and catfish. MDC uses it for scout troop and grade school class intro to fishing days.

[Gavin]

There was a trout hatchery on Heads Creek off of Big River years ago. Across 30 by the trailer park. Creek dumps in at Rockford Beach. 

[gotmuddy]

On 1/9/2021 at 7:04 PM, Ham said:

Weird to be bragging about being a poacher. If I see that happen, I’m going to try to get the perpetrator to answer for it. Really crappy thing to wantonly kill wildlife that you are not harvesting for food. 

I agree.  I honestly doubt otters do much damage to fish populations.  Crustaceans are much easier to get.

[Mitch f]

17 minutes ago, gotmuddy said:

I agree.  I honestly doubt otters do much damage to fish populations.  Crustaceans are much easier to get.

This is wrong...I know of people who had had their entire ponds wiped out of catfish in no time back when they were first introduced.