Anyone made a trip this year?

[tjm]

Think that gives them any influence on the department?

[laker67]

1 hour ago, Johnsfolly said:

I think that the number of trout going to the urban program is far less than you think.

This is on MDC's website:

A trout permit is required to possess trout, except in trout parks where a daily trout fishing tag is required during the catch-and-keep season. In addition, a trout permit is required for winter fishing in trout parks during the catch-and-release season and for fishing year-round in Lake Taneycomo upstream from the U.S. Highway 65 bridge. To fish for trout, anglers must also have a fishing permit or qualify for an exemption.

MDC raises trout at five fish hatcheries and releases about 1.7 million trout around the state for public fishing each year. According to MDC, the annual cost of fish food and staff labor to raise a trout in 2003 was about $1 per fish. The annual cost in 2017 had jumped to nearly twice that amount.

I have seen estimates of 70 to 75K trout being used for the urban lake program. Even if it is 170K trout that would still only be 10% of the trout being released around the state. If we use the 75K estimate, then only 15,000 trout stamps ($10 stamp) would need to be purchased by folks living in those urban areas to cover the cost of the fish (75K x $2.00 per fish). That does not seem to be a large number of folks and it seems likely that they are in fact paying for the costs of the fish being used in the urban program. Also I recall that the cities used to purchase those fish or at least in part.

I won't speak to the number of lunkers being shipped out from the hatcheries. My thoughts and from what I have heard from folks is that there is not an emphasis on rearing a large number of "lunkers" or brood fish to be released into the parks or lakes. Seems like Taneycomo gets it fair share.

Your numbers make good sense and give more support than I thought. I still think that they short change the parks in order to promote this. Just my opionion of course. And reading regulations, it appears that the urban fisherman only need a trout permit if they keep trout. 

[Johnsfolly]

24 minutes ago, laker67 said:

Your numbers make good sense and give more support than I thought. I still think that they short change the parks in order to promote this. Just my opionion of course. And reading regulations, it appears that the urban fisherman only need a trout permit if they keep trout. 

Yes they only need a trout permit at $10 to catch and keep trout. But that is the same as a guy fishing the Niangua below the park.

From what I read previously Lake Taneycomo gets around 750K trout or more a year.

[netboy]

Sorry to hear this. What a shame for MDC. Those trout parks were a great resource to get kids into fly fishing.

I haven't been to Bennett Springs since I was kid in the early 60's when we lived in Florissant and it was where I learned to fly fish with my Dad. I can remember wading out to secure your favorite spot and waiting for 30 minutes until the siren went off and then cast your brown woolly worm and spinner awkwardly on a fly rod and catch the stockers they dumped the night before. After that wore off we had great fun fishing our favorite fly, Australian Possum Fur scud, that my Dad got the "magic" fur from some guy in Kansas City (I think his name was Glenn Bennett??). Also remember a black/chartturece marabou jig that worked great. We fished some with Pete and Marie Cento who both held the Missouri state record rainbows for some time.

Interesting that a friend of mine up here in Cotter also learned fly fishing at Bennett with his Dad and his favorite fly here on the White river is the same old black/chartturece marabou jig. Guess the trout haven't changed their appetite much in 60 years.

Great memories.

Are all the other trout parks in that bad of shape?

[Devan S.]

4 minutes ago, netboy said:

Sorry to hear this..

I haven't been to Bennett Springs since I was kid in the early 60's and it was where I learned to fly fish with my Dad. 

Are all the other trout parks in that bad of shape?

It would take someone that regularly fishes all the parks but I would say RRSP isn't nearly what it was pre-hatchery closing for upgrades. A guy can go and catch lots of 8-12" fish but lunkers/browns are very few and far between.

My only problem with the urban trout program is that they put in any lunkers. I just don't understand why you would put the bigger fish out there to potentially die if they survive the winter. fill those ponds up with stockers and keep the lunkers in the river where they can survive. 

 

[snagged in outlet 3]

24 minutes ago, netboy said:

Sorry to hear this..

I haven't been to Bennett Springs since I was kid in the early 60's and it was where I learned to fly fish with my Dad. 

Are all the other trout parks in that bad of shape?

Montauk is not what it was either. 

[netboy]

8 minutes ago, snagged in outlet 3 said:

Montauk is not what it was either. 

Maybe MDC should take some lessons from Arkansas Game and Fish on how to manage their cold water fisheries. What a shame that the North Fork of the White took such a hit from the floods a few years ago and they won't stock trout.

[fishinwrench]

One beef I have with the urban program is that they don't just throw those dink 10-12 inchers in there, like they do at the parks and the White/Red ribbon areas.   

Noooo, they pick out all the GOODUNS!  😣. 15-20 inchers! 

They report that they stock the White Ribbon areas at least once a month, but I know for a fact that monthly stockings get skipped very often.   Also the Niangua is reported to get a load of Browns from Shepherd every Fall, but it hasn't had any browns stocked for 2 years.  If it gets none this Oct/Nov then that will be 3 years skipped on the stocking of Brown trout.    

They'll never skip that urban BS though.  Not ever!    So WTF? 

Why are the special Ribbon areas sucking hind tit in order to benefit the lameass urban program?  The ribbon areas came FIRST, didn't they?

Bennett is always supposed to have some browns in it, as is the Niangua.   I challenge you to find one NOW.

[SpoonDog]

4 hours ago, laker67 said:

They might be and this is what we get

And producing more fish may not have been the point. 

I replaced a 20 year old A/C a couple years back- new one produces the same volume of cold air, using a fraction of the energy.  Replacing a septic system isn't sexy, either, but things break.  Things wear out.  Hatchery renovations could've focused on making operations cleaner and more efficient.  If the only thing we're measuring is numbers of fish produced, we may not see the difference. 

I don't know if Bennett's had the same water quality issues as Taney, or the same parasite issues as Maramec, but there could be legitimate animal health reasons why they're not putting higher fish densities in the raceways or the spring branches.  Heck, with the global pandemic, they may not be able to purchase the antibiotics and medications they need to raise more fish. 

It could be any number of things limiting production.  Who knows.

[fishinwrench]

14 minutes ago, SpoonDog said:

And producing more fish may not have been the point. 

I replaced a 20 year old A/C a couple years back- new one produces the same volume of cold air, using a fraction of the energy.  Replacing a septic system isn't sexy, either, but things break.  Things wear out.  Hatchery renovations could've focused on making operations cleaner and more efficient.  If the only thing we're measuring is numbers of fish produced, we may not see the difference.

Oh NO.....The reason for expanding the hatchery was "to produce MORE and BETTER QUALITY fish". So they could better stock the park and the 8 miles of White Ribbon area.    They clearly stated that before they even began the construction.     

That was definitely "the point".