1st timer to Crane Creek

[Ryan Miloshewski]

All this talk of snakes has me reminiscing. I used to track Timber Rattlesnakes as part of a relocation study. Did some transmitter surgery on them and everything. 

Everyone would be mighty surprised at how close they've been to a TR or copperhead without ever knowing. There were times when we were 5-10 feet away and still couldn't see 'em. Both species very much rely on their camouflage. Heck, I think in three years I only heard a TR rattle once--and that is when we grabbed a pregnant one from under a lady's porch (yikes).

[nomolites]

16 minutes ago, Ryan Miloshewski said:

All this talk of snakes has be reminiscing. I used to track Timber Rattlesnakes as part of a relocation study. Did some transmitter surgery on them and everything. 

Everyone would be mighty surprised at how close they've been to a TR or copperhead without ever knowing. There were times when we were 5-10 feet away and still couldn't see 'em. Both species very much rely on their camouflage. Heck, I think in three years I only heard a TR rattle once--and that is when we grabbed a pregnant one from under a lady's porch (yikes).

In my younger days we did some snake collecting as well through school and most don’t bother me, I actually had a pretty good live collection growing up.  The exception are the large water moccasins….they are very strong and not real friendly.  Drove the levees at Mingo to collect them a time or two using rebar pinning rods and gunny sacks(we were primitive back then) - I was never sure just exactly who had who until the collecting bag was tied off - and those memories are enough for me and I keep my distance these days.  The benefits of age.

Mike

[snagged in outlet 3]

1 hour ago, nomolites said:

The wisdom of age.

FIFY😁

[LuvToFish]

What a beautiful stream! Will be fishing in the morning early but stopped by to check the creek out. Simply pristine! Seen several nice trout in this creek bend. The water is gin clear and looking great. 

[LuvToFish]

15 hours ago, LuvToFish said:

What a beautiful stream! Will be fishing in the morning early but stopped by to check the creek out. Simply pristine! Seen several nice trout in this creek bend. The water is gin clear and looking great. 

My first McCloud Rainbow from early this morning. Beautiful fish if not a little smallish   caught 4 this morning biggest around 9”. Water is nice and cold where we fished  

[tjm]

On 7/16/2021 at 2:17 PM, BilletHead said:

             Good thought. I know out west where they rely on snow melt to feed the rivers during warm spells they shout down during high heat hours. Montana for sure. Does anyone know the temps coming out of roaring river or Bennett spring and does that temp shift much?  I am betting there is a daily record. I imagine towards the end of the trout area yes it could warm up some. Fish have a way of knowing and try to stay where they are most comfortable. Bass run into the Bennett spring branch to constant warmer water during the winter. I bet the trout move up higher if the flow will let them to be in the sweet spot. 

   Heck I move in and out if I can to feel good. 

Those western rivers run miles and miles through deserts with zero shade and little or no cold water inputs, most of the springs I saw when growing up in Idaho and Oregon were warm to hot, the snow/glacier melt is the only source of cool. The typical Ozark stream is cool/cold spring fed and goes underground at half the gravel bars that cools it again, so no comparison really. What might compare closer would be the east coast streams I used to fish (and kept temperature records on) they often start in swamps that are in essence springs are about the size of Crane Creek or Roaring River and end in 5-20 miles, in those streams with open over head area for a half mile or more the water temperatures would rapidly approach air temps, with water being ~72-74 and air being ~80 (near the source ~64); but in the streams that had good shade the temps stayed near the source level through out most of the stream and occasionally would drop lower around midstream springs. The four or five years I monitored stream temps, let me get good enough feel for the water that I'd stick my hand into a section and guess within a degree of what the thermometer would read. My observations indicate that the trout left any area that became too warm, if there was anyplace upstream to go.   The native brookies never left the shade/springs  and consequently the fisheries folks never knew they were there.

My thoughts run like this, concerning heat and fish distress, if most of the fish are active, the water is a good temperature. If most of the fish are huddled in the shade or under the falls sucking up O2 rich water and the water feels lukewarm, there is a danger to the fish. Trout were never very active in water where I found temperatures of 70+.  Although in one stream where brown trout were just beginning to naturalize they did seem to adapt to warmer temps, with the fingerlings being active in mid 70s water where there was some shade.

On RR, it's supposed to be 57F at the spring, I've never checked the temperatures (I will next time over there) but I've wet waded the middle section C&R enough times that I'll guess it ~65 in the warmest  shallows with some much  cooler spots. It gets much warmer in the upper part of zone 3. I think there are small springs feeding that stream through it's length, but I don't know that. Wide shallow runs with little shade are what heats up a stream. Those western rivers that get shut down are artificial fisheries to begin with, the fish didn't evolve to exist there.

[Johnsfolly]

17 hours ago, LuvToFish said:

My first McCloud Rainbow from early this morning. Beautiful fish if not a little smallish   caught 4 this morning biggest around 9”. Water is nice and cold where we fished  

Congrats on a nice McCloud rainbow! You're a Crane creek expert now 😉!

[LuvToFish]

9 hours ago, Johnsfolly said:

Congrats on a nice McCloud rainbow! You're a Crane creek expert now 😉!

I’m far from an expert and more like an initiate.

Only fished a very small portion of the stream but did not see a single snake. It was almost a let down, 🤣

[tjm]

I've never seen a snake there either, but it wasn't a let down, these days I'm always surprised to see any snake.  I've noticed fewer fewer snakes everywhere over the last 15 years or so. Rarely see a road kill snake and 30 years ago I'd see a dozen or two on any trip of 10-30 miles. I have speculated that armadillos are part of the snake decline, when I mentioned that observation to a state herp, she suggested that it wasn't the 'dillos  eating baby snakes but that they compete for prey.

[BilletHead]

22 hours ago, tjm said:

Those western rivers run miles and miles through deserts with zero shade and little or no cold water inputs, most of the springs I saw when growing up in Idaho and Oregon were warm to hot, the snow/glacier melt is the only source of cool. The typical Ozark stream is cool/cold spring fed and goes underground at half the gravel bars that cools it again, so no comparison really. What might compare closer would be the east coast streams I used to fish (and kept temperature records on) they often start in swamps that are in essence springs are about the size of Crane Creek or Roaring River and end in 5-20 miles, in those streams with open over head area for a half mile or more the water temperatures would rapidly approach air temps, with water being ~72-74 and air being ~80 (near the source ~64); but in the streams that had good shade the temps stayed near the source level through out most of the stream and occasionally would drop lower around midstream springs. The four or five years I monitored stream temps, let me get good enough feel for the water that I'd stick my hand into a section and guess within a degree of what the thermometer would read. My observations indicate that the trout left any area that became too warm, if there was anyplace upstream to go.   The native brookies never left the shade/springs  and consequently the fisheries folks never knew they were there.

My thoughts run like this, concerning heat and fish distress, if most of the fish are active, the water is a good temperature. If most of the fish are huddled in the shade or under the falls sucking up O2 rich water and the water feels lukewarm, there is a danger to the fish. Trout were never very active in water where I found temperatures of 70+.  Although in one stream where brown trout were just beginning to naturalize they did seem to adapt to warmer temps, with the fingerlings being active in mid 70s water where there was some shade.

On RR, it's supposed to be 57F at the spring, I've never checked the temperatures (I will next time over there) but I've wet waded the middle section C&R enough times that I'll guess it ~65 in the warmest  shallows with some much  cooler spots. It gets much warmer in the upper part of zone 3. I think there are small springs feeding that stream through it's length, but I don't know that. Wide shallow runs with little shade are what heats up a stream. Those western rivers that get shut down are artificial fisheries to begin with, the fish didn't evolve to exist there.

   You are not telling me anything I don't know here. Been spending two weeks out West chasing trout since 2008. Missed last year. Skipping this year for a different trip. Had to adjust to hoot owl hours in Montana. Fished that State plus Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho, Utah, Nevada, Oregon, New Mexico and Arizona. From glacier run off to high desert. 

  No to western Rivers getting shut down because  they are artificial fisheries. The fish were and are there. Native and introduced species.  They are shut down because of warmer than normal water temperature. They do this to keep undue stress to the fish. The only places stocked to this day on Montana are lakes and to restore the native cutthroat and bull trout.  

  Don't assume do some research.