oneshot 1 Posted July 24 Posted July 24 2 hours ago, WestCentralFisher said: I hike a lot in a place where timber rattlers are pretty common. FWIW, I've come real close to accidentally stepping on them a few times, and I've not been struck at. Definitely been rattled at, but then that's probably why I didn't actually step on them. I view them similarly to black bears. When they're around in any significant numbers, you should take precautions (I always wear my tall leather boots there) but they'll try at least as hard to avoid any aggressive interaction as you will most times. I really think the rattle is a non-aggressive action intended to prevent a situation where a strike is necessary. Now, if you have dogs with you, look out. They'll sometimes ignore the rattle and try to catch the snake, and get bitten in the process. And then sometimes you have to carry your large dog 4 miles out to the truck, call a rural emergency vet, pay a whole lot of money, and your dog will be in a leg cast for awhile. Don't ask me how I know this. I had two Dogs get bit by them give them Benadryl and pray. They both pulled through. That was on the Farm. I crawled underneath my Pickup my face was few inches away from a Rattler laying in the Wheel Well. He didn't know I peed backing out. oneshot nomolites, WestCentralFisher, Greasy B and 1 other 1 3
snagged in outlet 3 Posted July 24 Posted July 24 49 minutes ago, basska said: Cool topic. Snakes (venemous or not) have always fascinated me and I probably don’t have enough of the natural human repulsion of them (Spiders on the other hand…). I’ve seen Timber Rattlers near KC before. Seen a Copperhead once near Truman Lake. Have yet to see a Cottonmouth and that’s one I really want to encounter on a float trip. It would be cool to see a scientific survey of watersheds that support Cottonmouth. I’ve heard they are pretty much non existent in the Meramec system, but fairly common on the Gasconade, Niangua, Black, and Upper White River systems. I wonder if they are around The Elk? Another snake of southern Missouri I would love to see is the Pygmy Rattler. Barely a Rattlesnake, and extremely beautiful. I’ve seen numerous moccasins here on lower table rock. Always in the far back reaches of coves. basska 1
Flysmallie Posted July 24 Posted July 24 I haven’t seen any of the rattlers around here but growing up we had plenty of diamondbacks to keep you on your toes. Rarely seen one before you heard it and there was never a question of what that noise was.
dblades Posted July 24 Posted July 24 Most of my rattler experience is from Arizona, but several close encounters and never had one rattle. One time was face to face looking under brush for a dove, another my foot was 6 inches over one coiled. I will saw I never thought a rattler was as loud as they are. snagged in outlet 3 and nomolites 2
WestCentralFisher Posted July 24 Posted July 24 1 hour ago, oneshot 1 said: I had two Dogs get bit by them give them Benadryl and pray. They both pulled through. That was on the Farm. I crawled underneath my Pickup my face was few inches away from a Rattler laying in the Wheel Well. He didn't know I peed backing out. oneshot Honestly, not all that different than what the vet did. He gave him a steroid, some cream that is usually used on cattle to draw toxins from wounds, and told us he had no idea if any if that would work or if the dog eould survive, but that was the best he could do. Anti-venom is generally not real available and you wouldn't use it on a dog anyway. He did pull through, though he never seemed 100% the same after, had a lifelong limp, and he died 5 years later at only 7 years old. I always wonder if the experience did kill him, just really slowly. He was a real good dog, though.
tjm Posted July 24 Posted July 24 1 hour ago, basska said: Have yet to see a Cottonmouth and that’s one I really want to encounter on a float trip. It would be cool to see a scientific survey of watersheds that support Cottonmouth. I’ve heard they are pretty much non existent in the Meramec system, but fairly common on the Gasconade, Niangua, Black, and Upper White River systems. I wonder if they are around The Elk? If you look at MDC maps of the Northern Cottonmouth then yes they can be in the Elk drainage- I find it interesting how far north the map is shaded when other sources would suggest only about half that shaded area. But living between the two Sugar Creeks off and on since 1950s, and having fished and hunted in three of the Elk's tributaries over that period, I've only seen 3-4 snakes that I thought were cottonmouths (neither they nor I wanted closer inspection) and it's been perhaps 20 years since the last suspect. I don't know of anyone who has seen more than that either, and I've heard many older outdoors men argue that they don't exist in this drainage, so ... but I guess that at some place it's only a few feet between the White R. or Illinois R. drainage and the Elk drainage and it might be possible that snake got confused. There are thousands of people that report water-snakes and black rat snakes as being cottonmouths. Typically any snake within a rock-throw of water is called a "water-moccasin" by the average person. The pygmy/ground rattler do frequent some of the cedar glades near Little Sugar that I know of and likely other similar areas, but they are rarely seen as far as I'm aware. Small snakes and I guess shy. I have noticed that over the years fewer and fewer snakes get killed on the roads, back in the '80s five miles of local state highway would show 10-12 or more fresh snake kills almost daily and in recent years I driven that same stretch for weeks without seeing a single snake. I kinda relate this to greatly increased numbers of hawks, but we also have fewer box turtles and way fewer tarantulas, scorpions and lizards, so there may be an environmental change causing it. basska 1
jdmidwest Posted July 25 Author Posted July 25 7 hours ago, oneshot 1 said: I had two Dogs get bit by them give them Benadryl and pray. They both pulled through. That was on the Farm. I crawled underneath my Pickup my face was few inches away from a Rattler laying in the Wheel Well. He didn't know I peed backing out. oneshot Did you snag the valve and it let go when you scooted out, or was that before all that is going on now... "Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously." — Hunter S. Thompson
fishinwrench Posted July 25 Posted July 25 5 hours ago, tjm said: If you look at MDC maps of the Northern Cottonmouth then yes they can be in the Elk drainage- I find it interesting how far north the map is shaded when other sources would suggest only about half that shaded area. But living between the two Sugar Creeks off and on since 1950s, and having fished and hunted in three of the Elk's tributaries over that period, I've only seen 3-4 snakes that I thought were cottonmouths (neither they nor I wanted closer inspection) and it's been perhaps 20 years since the last suspect. I don't know of anyone who has seen more than that either, and I've heard many older outdoors men argue that they don't exist in this drainage, so ... but I guess that at some place it's only a few feet between the White R. or Illinois R. drainage and the Elk drainage and it might be possible that snake got confused. There are thousands of people that report water-snakes and black rat snakes as being cottonmouths. Typically any snake within a rock-throw of water is called a "water-moccasin" by the average person. The pygmy/ground rattler do frequent some of the cedar glades near Little Sugar that I know of and likely other similar areas, but they are rarely seen as far as I'm aware. Small snakes and I guess shy. I have noticed that over the years fewer and fewer snakes get killed on the roads, back in the '80s five miles of local state highway would show 10-12 or more fresh snake kills almost daily and in recent years I driven that same stretch for weeks without seeing a single snake. I kinda relate this to greatly increased numbers of hawks, but we also have fewer box turtles and way fewer tarantulas, scorpions and lizards, so there may be an environmental change causing it. I can 100% verify that there are cottonmouth and timber rattlers at least 4 counties north of those lines. What I can't verify is ANYONE that has ever been bitten by one. Copperheads however, I know numerous folks that have been hit by them...... including myself. I think mine was a dry bite though, because the shot made me feel WAY sicker than the bite did.
snagged in outlet 3 Posted July 25 Posted July 25 4 minutes ago, fishinwrench said: 5 hours ago, tjm said: I can 100% verify that there are cottonmouth and timber rattlers at least 4 counties north of those lines. What I can't verify is ANYONE that has ever been bitten by one I’ve seen moccasins on the north side of the Missouri River in st Charles County. I think I posted a picture of it on here. Greasy B and fishinwrench 2
jdmidwest Posted July 25 Author Posted July 25 5 hours ago, tjm said: If you look at MDC maps of the Northern Cottonmouth then yes they can be in the Elk drainage- I find it interesting how far north the map is shaded when other sources would suggest only about half that shaded area. But living between the two Sugar Creeks off and on since 1950s, and having fished and hunted in three of the Elk's tributaries over that period, I've only seen 3-4 snakes that I thought were cottonmouths (neither they nor I wanted closer inspection) and it's been perhaps 20 years since the last suspect. I don't know of anyone who has seen more than that either, and I've heard many older outdoors men argue that they don't exist in this drainage, so ... but I guess that at some place it's only a few feet between the White R. or Illinois R. drainage and the Elk drainage and it might be possible that snake got confused. There are thousands of people that report water-snakes and black rat snakes as being cottonmouths. Typically any snake within a rock-throw of water is called a "water-moccasin" by the average person. The pygmy/ground rattler do frequent some of the cedar glades near Little Sugar that I know of and likely other similar areas, but they are rarely seen as far as I'm aware. Small snakes and I guess shy. I have noticed that over the years fewer and fewer snakes get killed on the roads, back in the '80s five miles of local state highway would show 10-12 or more fresh snake kills almost daily and in recent years I driven that same stretch for weeks without seeing a single snake. I kinda relate this to greatly increased numbers of hawks, but we also have fewer box turtles and way fewer tarantulas, scorpions and lizards, so there may be an environmental change causing it. Most poisonous snakes float on top of the water when swimming. Cottonmouths like to just drift along sometimes in the water. Cottonmouth are plenty in southern Missouri. Normally see at least one on the 11 pt. I have always found it strange for a cold blooded creature to be plentiful in cooler waters. When I was a kid just starting driving, it was not uncommon for me to see several copperheads on the roads of a night after dark. Some of the larger ones I skinned out and dried, had them hanging on the shed at the house. Rattlesnakes did not come along until the 80's. We had a big flush of them in late 2000 at the farm. I always credit the MDC for a release in the nearby conservation area. Otters have probably took the worst toll on all of the snakes, they kill alot of them. Most streams are almost void of water snakes any more. snagged in outlet 3 1 "Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously." — Hunter S. Thompson
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