MDC Public Comment Meetings - Part 2

[fishinwrench]

I'm betting there isn't a single person present at the meetings, nor a single person submitting an email that is in favor of more harvest.    The only folks they are hearing from is those who wish to lessen harvest.

Yet they still will not change a thing.   This whole process is a circle jerk.

[joeD]

Dan, gosh bless you brother, but who the f*** do you think we've been addressing our "issues" to in the past 20 years?  

And here's the kicker. It would be side splitting funny if it weren't so sad: Not one person from the MDC in the past 20 years that (we/you/everyone) has talked to, or talked to us, or hosted meetings or presented scientific studies, could ever implement change, or even influence change. They have (and had),  absolutely no power or authority to do anything. Except pass on "our" concerns. 

As I've stated before, and which I believe implicitly, change to Wildlife Codes in "our" favor will come through politicians, not the MDC, even though many believe the MDC operates outside the political arena. We need to "dialogue" with persons in power, who can actually get something done. MDC flunkies are a dead end. We should know that after 20 years.

[Gavin]

Have they made this effort or offered anything in the past 20 years? Nope, they have earned a reputation as do nothing's with a fat budget, but they have finally committed to something here. We can vote to cut funding, and show most of them the door if their recommendations do not meet expectations. Never thought I'd send Jason Smith a check.....but I might. They might be more responsive to hunters and anglers if they had to make their nut on permit fees instead of their 1/8th cent sales tax dole.

[Dan Kreher]

With all due respect to Joe and other naysayers, need I remind folks that these regulations change proposals are those of the MDC itself. And the four MDC Commissioners will be the ones ratifying these proposals following any modifications proposed as a result of these public comment meetings. So, there will be no vote required in the MO Legislature on these changes to make them laws. 

That's how our Conservation agency/Commission structure works. These regulations, in their final form,would likely become law March 1, 2017.  

I also do not consider our four MDC Commissioners as "flunkies" as I have spoken face-to-face with 3 of the 4 of them within the past month.  But all are welcome to their opinions, of course, which are freely expressed on this forum in the spirit of our First Amendment.  

 

[Chief Grey Bear]

Have they made this effort or offered anything in the past 20 years? Nope, they have earned a reputation as do nothing's with a fat budget, but they have finally committed to something here. We can vote to cut funding, and show most of them the door if their recommendations do not meet expectations. Never thought I'd send Jason Smith a check.....but I might. They might be more responsive to hunters and anglers if they had to make their nut on permit fees instead of their 1/8th cent sales tax dole.

Gavin, I have great respect for you and what you stand for. 

But please don't stoop to this level. This is what a few select legislators were doing just a few short months ago. It's this "if you don't manage the way I want it managed, I'll force you to manage it my way because that is the way I want it!", that causes great division. 

Does not anyone want to have a conversation that promotes the best possible solutions that will work best for ALL concerned? 

This is exactly what we blame our federal government of doing and then here we are doing the exact same thing. 

To accuse the MDC of doing nothing for the last 20 years is ludicrous. Since establishing the SBBSMA's, they have continually monitored them and areas outside the SBBSMA's to establish if they do indeed produce the desired results as designed. And they are studying the possible migration habits of the smallmouth. But they also have other commitments they must pay attention to also. 

Do know who your local fisheries biologist is? Does he know who you are? If not, why don't you invest the same amount of time speaking with him and learning what is going on as you do on here belittling them. 

I think a few of you on here should do the same. I can tell from the comments you need to. 

[Smalliebigs]

...not unless Al's mistaken, too.  The numbers are pulled from his report of the MDC smallmouth study presented at the MSA meeting here: 

Look, you guys are extremely skilled smallmouth bass anglers. No question.  But you're conferring expertise in one area to expertise in another.  Being a great basketball player doesn't make you a great coach.  Being a great mechanic doesn't mean you're a great racecar driver.  Being a great smallie fisherman doesn't mean you're a great fishery biologist- and having different results than MDC's doesn't mean your results are representative and theirs aren't, no matter how forcefully you insist otherwise.  All it means is they're different. 

Spoon it seemed like you were inferring that the MDC had patrolled and made busts on the Black and it was on the Little Black river they caught one dude in a camper after concerned citizens informed them of the dickwads poaching and greatfully so the MDC busted him......they don't dung on the Black river and it's tribs.....they may have done a tagging study and yes the smallies grow fast in the Black primarily because they winter in Clearwater lake as the Black is very infertile.

    I know of tards in Reynolds County who go to the Black and set charges in the river and collect everything on the downside shoal......it's a free for all on that river as far as poaching goes......but, don't drive one tire in the water or you will get busted.  

[MOPanfisher]

For the sake of this discussion let's say that for the last 20 plus years the MDC has been the most useless, backward, do nothing organization that ever existed.  Today for some reason they got religion or drank their own bathwater whatever but have decided to step up and do the right thing.  So they take a step in the right direction, at keast we all seem to believe it is, but don't suddenly follow our directions blindly and all the way.  Do we berate them for not going all the way as we want or do we as sportsmen, taxpayers, citizens, and lovers of streams and smallmouth support them in this step and work with them for the next step a few years down the road?  We are a pretty small group compared to others who have a particular fish they adore, even non native trout get more attention, however we are headed in the right direction.  With the change in regs there will be a new crop of college students looking to study the results and more data will be available for the next round.  And BTW the commissioners seem to have a reputation for standing up to any and all political pressures put on them by the legislature, why because the MDC has the backing of the majority of the people in MO, and the legislature knows it.  I for one do not want a politically run wildlife management agency.

[SpoonDog]

You're right, Mitch- the big gigging bust was on Little Black and not the Black River proper.  My mistake.  I was just giving Mitch an example of how you'd quantify the proportion of gigged fish you run into, though- doesn't really have a bearing on anything else. 

 

You're right Clearwater exists downstream of the upper Black.  Bull Shoals exists downstream of North Fork, and we don't see the same relationship.   The mainstem Meramec exists downstream of Courtois, it's more fertile than that stream, and yet we don't see that relationship.  If that many fish are migrating to Clearwater they're doing so at some energy cost, and when they get there they're competing with resident fish for food and space.  If they're being targeted as intensely as we believe- that means harvest rates are even higher than MDC data suggests. 

 

But if that's the relationship you say we see, it means MDC can prioritize enforcement and quality regs to the stream-reservoir combos where they'll have the most effect:  the Black, the St. Francis, the White River tribs, Sac, Niangua, Pomme, Neosho...and they don't have to worry about the Meramec or the Gasconade or the Current.

[Hog Wally]

I'm not a expert on fish migration but I do know if fish go downstream to Clearwater lake it would basically be a stroll in the park   I mean it's downstream  right? And to travel back up in late winter with a little flood rise I'm sure of this that they hug the bank  on one side or the other it's always dead water.  Just saying.   There is some very interesting conversations coming from this topic. 

[Al Agnew]

Not all reservoir/upstream relationships are the same.  Smallmouth that would migrate to and from Norfork have to cover a long stretch of marginal smallmouth habitat (water too cold from the big springs that begin the trout section).  I imagine some do, but not many.  More may migrate down and up Bryant Creek, but chances are that most smallies on upper North Fork simply migrate as far as the spring water influence, if they migrate at all.

Wappapello on the St. Francis has very little smallmouth habitat, too silty.  And the smallmouth population in the river above it isn't very strong until you get up above Sam A. Baker Park.

I'm sure many smallmouth migrate from the James to Table Rock.  Probably quite a few run up and down some of the smaller streams feeding Table Rock and Bull Shoals.  But they are entering lakes that already have significant resident smallmouth populations, unlike those on Black River.  That might make some kind of difference.  A bigger difference, however, is that Table Rock and Bull Shoals fish have a vast amount more lake to spread out into.  Black River fish winter in a very small portion of Clearwater, which isn't a big lake anyway.

As for MDC, I think they've accomplished quite a bit; I don't see them as being do-nothings, and I wouldn't send that idiot Jason Smith a check if he had a gun to my head.  I want NO part of encouraging him to meddle in their affairs.  I might not be happy about their assumptions and mindset, and I'd like them to do more, but they could be a lot worse..