The Oregon Standoff

[Mark]

I find this story so interesting. I try to look at both sides of the controversy. And I understand the rugged individualism of the people of the Northwest. While I agree with the approach taken so far by law enforcement of just letting the protesters be, not antagonizing, and remaining peaceful, I have to agree with a couple of national reporters who have written stories that made the point that if the protest group were someone other than white, conservative ranchers who had overtaken a government facility, this situation would be handled differently than just a civil disobedience. I think we do have different standards for different groups. I guess this will fall under the political discussion category that is not suppose to be discussed on OAF, but what conservation issue is not political.

[Flysmallie]

Bundy is a douche and should take his douchey ways elsewhere. The people in the community don't want him there. The two guys that went to prison didn't want him there. He needs to go and take his band of losers with him. Or the government should treat them like they would if they weren't white rednecks. I bet if they were Muslim it would be over. But it was designed to be political so that's exactly what it will be.  

[Greasy B]

 

Unrest among the leeches in the Cadillac desert.

[Mitch f]

Yea, I'm about as conservative as they come, but I think Bundy is a douche

[mic]

I'm tired of hearing that he isn't a terrorist.  He is the differentiation of one: Using violence or the threat of violence to reach a political outcome.  Part of me says go in and clear them out, not matter the cost; but my head reminds me I (having a family close call in OKC) don't want to inspire another Tim McVay.  

[Ham]

"if they weren't white" ehhhhh I would think in this situation being white would work against you. It's usually minority groups that get treated with kid gloves. The "occupy" folks got to be obnoxious for a long, long time. Sooooo

It's a delicate situation that I don't fully understand all the nuances of. I can see were the authorities don't want another Ruby Ridge. I would hope that no one loses their live over this deal, but if the knuckleheads fire on LEO's or Feds then whatever happens is on them.

 

[Mark]

Isn't the crux of the matter that the feds are restricting the ranchers freedom to graze on public grounds. I did read that 1/2 of al land in Oregon is federal public ground that draws no property taxes. I had no idea it was that much land.

[Quillback]

1 hour ago, Mark said:

Isn't the crux of the matter that the feds are restricting the ranchers freedom to graze on public grounds. I did read that 1/2 of al land in Oregon is federal public ground that draws no property taxes. I had no idea it was that much land.

Lots of public land out there, I lived in Washington state for close to 20 years.

Ranchers pay a fee to graze their cattle on BLM and other federal owned land, and that fee is less than what they would pay to graze their cattle on private lands.  It is not open range, free to whomever wants to use it for whatever action they want.  Most ranchers recognize they are getting a pretty good deal, being able to run their cattle on government land.

 

[MOPanfisher]

Federal land has rules.  You can fight against them and lose or work with them, most government agencies will help yout through the hoops if asked.  Don't like the rules you don't have to graze your cattle on the land.  Want to argue that the Federal Govt can't own land, it's a losing argument.  Bundy is a thief and now a terrorist.  Right now with all their group bottled up in Oregon is the time to round up their cattle and sell them to pay their 1 million dollar outstanding debt.  I understand that Govt over reach is an issue but being stupid isn't gonna help.  

[Al Agnew]

At this point I think law enforcement is handling this well, but when you get right down to it, this is public land, and right now the public can't use it.  Probably not many people want to use it in the dead of winter, but what happens if this goes on until the weather improves?  And I think the seeds of this were sown when the elder Bundy was allowed to basically get away with his escapades.