I feel the Bern!

[SpoonDog]

3 hours ago, Flysmallie said:

 

Maybe a scholarship. Or the A Plus program. I know a lot of kids that have gone to school for two years for free because of the A Plus program. Don't make excuses for people not wanting to better themselves. I did it with no help from the government or my parents. I also worked 40 hours a week. Had a wife and one kid at the time. So I don't want to hear their bullshit about how they can't afford it. Is it easy? Nope. Don't think its supposed to be.

Right, scholarships.  Make a 4.0 and then put your name in this hat with 10,000 others.  Maybe we'll pick yours.  University of Illinois offers 44 four-year full ride scholarships for their 44,087 students, there's a <1% chance a qualified student gets one.  They use merit to winnow down the number of students, but whether you're funded or not depends on sheer dumb luck.  If it's really the best model, let's apply it to Social security- you fill out a form and there's a 99% chance you don't get anything back.  You can't argue a model with one winner and 99 losers is more fair or more merit-based than a model where everyone who's qualified receives financial aid.  And many scholarships aren't dedicated funding streams- they dry up when the economy's in the tank, when students are most likely to need them.  A+ is an excellent government-funded university program, worth expanding. 

Sander's proposal pays for qualified students to attend university, it doesn't relax the entrance requirements.  You're not throwing money to kids who haven't worked to get into school, you're giving money to kids who HAVE worked hard, HAVE the grades, but don't have the means to pay tuition. Just tuition.  We're not getting them dorm suites and we're not paying their meal plan and we're not getting them season passes to the football games.  They're still gonna have to feed themselves and they're still gonna have to clothe themselves and they're still gonna have to get books and supplies and find a place to live.  They're not getting a stipend, they'll still have to work. 

I'm glad you were able to make college work with a wife and kids, and I don't know when you went to school Flysmallie, but lots of folks were able to afford college back when college was affordable.  It isn't now, that's the point, and your personal experience may not be as relevant as you think. As nuts as healthcare costs are they're outpaced by college tuition, and it amazes me a society that poops its pants when gas is >$3.50/gallon shrugs when tuition increases 15% in two years, when it's increased 1000%+ since 1978.  We owe more in student loan debt than we do in credit cards. Sixty percent of MO students have some form of college debt and the average is $25,000, and while it's easy to sit in the rocking chair yelling "GET A JOB!" it can be tough to do when unemployment among college-age students is double the national level and an employer can choose between working around your 15 credit-hour schedule or hiring someone else.  A full-time courseload and two part-time jobs teaches you this firsthand.    It isn't making excuses, it's dealing honestly with the world as it actually exists. 

 

College should be tough, tougher than it is now.  Going to classes, keeping up with the work, reading, studying, exams, midterms, finals, essays, projects, learning to deal with people from diverse backgrounds, thinking critically, defending ideas.  All that should be tough.  Paying for it shouldn't be.  I think we all agree it should be a merit-based system, I just don't think tuition should be a barrier. 

[Devan S.]

I finished my bachelors degree in 2012. Found a local job pretty quick could have committed to move to the city and had a job before graduating. I paid my way, applied for every scholarship I could, worked on campus, and took out loans. I left with around 20k in debt(all of which is paid for now). It can be done but its not easy. There are programs for those who really cant afford it. Due to my family I didn't fall into those programs it was all on me. I didn't do the party lifestyle I studied my butt off lived off campus with 7 guys in a 4 bedroom house and did it on the cheap. I also didn't go to "State U" and most importantly I got a degree in a value added field (STEM). I couldn't imagine myself paying for my kids to do what my friends did go to University of Arkansas, party all the time, get barely passing grades, get a worthless degree, and then complain that they got screwed. 

My biggest take away for me was college was a 75K to 100K investment. I had to invest in a degree that was going to pay off at some point(sooner, rather than later) and that there were jobs available. I can tell you most of my friends invested in what would be fun and make them happy and they are now paying the price for that.

 

 

[fishinwrench]

I barely suffered through high school, I hated studying things that didn't interest me, so college was completely out of the question.  I thought I was going to make a living and be happy as a lark tourney fishing and guiding all my life.  Then I had a kid and quickly realized that even during a really good year I was only one blown powerhead away from being homeless.   I had qualified #13 in the state thru B.A.S.S. Federation and was headed for regionals, but a strong finish in the federation rank pays NOTHING, it was pretty much a money pit unless you make it all the way and THEN win the Classic. Fat chance, right?   I really wanted to try it but now it wasn't just me, I had a little girl and a wife to consider.   After some serious soul searching I gave that game up and invested 6k in training at MMI in Orlando. The one thing that worried me the most (blown powerhead) was the fear I'd learn to conquer.   After schooling I still guided and fished local tournaments and worked at a LO Marina for 4 years and allowed them to pay for the additional training while I gained some important hands-on experience, and made them a buttload of money.  Then during a Winter layoff 21 years ago it occurred to me that I was doing ALL the work that was keeping the Marina alive, so why not open my own shop and get ALL the money?     I hit my dad up for a small loan and he helped me set up the legal end and register as a LLC.   I wanted to name it "Fishinwrench Marine" (the nickname was picked up while working at the marina)  but my dad said that was the stupidest F'n name he'd ever heard of and if I was gonna name it that then he wasn't helping me do $#it.   He said that using your real last name as your business name forces you to always operate with integrity and honesty because NOBODY wants to tarnish their family name.   Hmmm. Made sense, and I needed the help, so.....Sims Marine it was, and still is.  

So which President is best for a guy like me ?   

[jolicious]

14 minutes ago, fishinwrench said:

I barely suffered through high school, I hated studying things that didn't interest me, so college was completely out of the question.  I thought I was going to make a living and be happy as a lark tourney fishing and guiding all my life.  Then I had a kid and quickly realized that even during a really good year I was only one blown powerhead away from being homeless.   I had qualified #13 in the state thru B.A.S.S. Federation and was headed for regionals, but a strong finish in the federation rank pays NOTHING, it was pretty much a money pit unless you make it all the way and THEN win the Classic. Fat chance, right?   I really wanted to try it but now it wasn't just me, I had a little girl and a wife to consider.   After some serious soul searching I gave that game up and invested 6k in training at MMI in Orlando. The one thing that worried me the most (blown powerhead) was the fear I'd learn to conquer.   After schooling I still guided and fished local tournaments and worked at a LO Marina for 4 years and allowed them to pay for the additional training while I gained some important hands-on experience, and made them a buttload of money.  Then during a Winter layoff 21 years ago it occurred to me that I was doing ALL the work that was keeping the Marina alive, so why not open my own shop and get ALL the money?     I hit my dad up for a small loan and he helped me set up the legal end and register as a LLC.   I wanted to name it "Fishinwrench Marine" (the nickname was picked up while working at the marina)  but my dad said that was the stupidest F'n name he'd ever heard of and if I was gonna name it that then he wasn't helping me do $#it.   He said that using your real last name as your business name forces you to always operate with integrity and honesty because NOBODY wants to tarnish their family name.   Hmmm. Made sense, and I needed the help, so.....Sims Marine it was, and still is.  

So which President is best for a guy like me ?   

When you get an answer let me know - That'll likely be the best president for me too!

[Ham]

I watched the Dem debate. Really not impressed with either one of them.

[Trav]

5 hours ago, Ham said:

I watched the Dem debate. Really not impressed with either one of them.

Im still feeling the Bern..  

[Trav]

7 hours ago, fishinwrench said:

I barely suffered through high school, I hated studying things that didn't interest me, so college was completely out of the question.  I thought I was going to make a living and be happy as a lark tourney fishing and guiding all my life.  Then I had a kid and quickly realized that even during a really good year I was only one blown powerhead away from being homeless.   I had qualified #13 in the state thru B.A.S.S. Federation and was headed for regionals, but a strong finish in the federation rank pays NOTHING, it was pretty much a money pit unless you make it all the way and THEN win the Classic. Fat chance, right?   I really wanted to try it but now it wasn't just me, I had a little girl and a wife to consider.   After some serious soul searching I gave that game up and invested 6k in training at MMI in Orlando. The one thing that worried me the most (blown powerhead) was the fear I'd learn to conquer.   After schooling I still guided and fished local tournaments and worked at a LO Marina for 4 years and allowed them to pay for the additional training while I gained some important hands-on experience, and made them a buttload of money.  Then during a Winter layoff 21 years ago it occurred to me that I was doing ALL the work that was keeping the Marina alive, so why not open my own shop and get ALL the money?     I hit my dad up for a small loan and he helped me set up the legal end and register as a LLC.   I wanted to name it "Fishinwrench Marine" (the nickname was picked up while working at the marina)  but my dad said that was the stupidest F'n name he'd ever heard of and if I was gonna name it that then he wasn't helping me do $#it.   He said that using your real last name as your business name forces you to always operate with integrity and honesty because NOBODY wants to tarnish their family name.   Hmmm. Made sense, and I needed the help, so.....Sims Marine it was, and still is.  

So which President is best for a guy like me ?   

Big Johnson Marine if it was my choice.. ha..  i like fishinwrench as a marketing ploy for a shop that works on boats..  clever 

 

 

[Ham]

6 hours ago, Trav said:

Im still feeling the Bern..  

Ok then. I'm not sure what you're seeing in the guy, but have at it. it would be a fascinating election between Sanders and Trump. I'm not at all sure I would like the outcome and I know neither the DNC nor the RNC wants it to happen. 

[Mitch f]

18 minutes ago, Ham said:

Ok then. I'm not sure what you're seeing in the guy, but have at it. it would be a fascinating election between Sanders and Trump. I'm not at all sure I would like the outcome and I know neither the DNC nor the RNC wants it to happen. 

The republican establishments plan all along was to promote Rubio. I heard this from another source, and it Looks like that is whats happening.

Nothing against Rubio, but It makes me sick that the media and the political parties have such a strong influence over the elections, not the American people.

[fishinwrench]

Rubio is such a puppet.  Is he even a real human ?