Fishing in frigid weather, C/R & Frozen Gills

[MOPanfisher]

I hear ya, we have an older border collie, than when she and my kids were younger we had to ban from yard soccer, that dog was one of the greatest keepers/goalie ever.  As long as you didn't kick it too high,   Also had to ban her from baseball, as she would try to catch a ground or fly ball regardless of how hard it was hit and wouldn't never quit if it was hot, she would throw up, or lay down for a few seconds but if the ball moved she was up and moving.

[Al Agnew]

On 1/7/2017 at 9:31 AM, Chief Grey Bear said:

I certainly agree that colder water has more oxygen. That has been proven in the scientific community. 

I have a differnt thought on your second point. Or maybe it's more of a question. But being fish are cold blooded, do they have to expend more energy to get the same or equal "movement" if you will, as they do in warm water conditions? And this only applies to warm water species such as bass, which though can live and survive in cooler spring waters, are not designed to live in cold water areas like trout.

When hooked, is a bass actually burning more calories and energy to attempt the same escape maneuvers? Sure we on the other end of the line may feel a difference in the amount of power of the fish, but is he actually using more enery due to the fact it is colder? 

I think you are right that they return to their place of shelter and begin the recouperation process. And I too think the colder water conditions aid in this process. One other point I think that helps is the reduction of different bacterias that could harm them. 

One thing to consider when fishing these conditions that you touched on is that these fish will spend far less enery foraging. Meaning they will eat far less often. And one reason is that to do so takes much more energy since the main diet sources are also scarce. 

As for your second point, I really don't know. I haven't researched that part of the equation. Interesting discussion though. 

 

I realized I hadn't answered Chief's very good questions in this thread, so here are my still unscientific thoughts...

Energy is physics.  One flap of a fish's tail takes X amount of energy, no matter whether it's cold or warm.  The difference in cold blooded critters whether their bodies are 75 degrees or 35 degrees is not in how much energy they need to use to make that tail flap, but in how much energy their metabolism can produce (or maybe, how fast their metabolism can produce that energy).  So I don't think they expend more energy for the same amount of struggle in the winter, they just have less energy instantly available.  They move more slowly in the winter because their metabolism cannot produce it FAST enough.  So they fight more slowly, and hence use up less energy while doing so (not only are they using less energy per second of the struggle, but they are easier and quicker to get into the boat so they use up less energy overall.)  No matter what they are doing, they are burning less energy in the winter, but because their metabolism is slower, they cannot produce as much energy as quickly as they can during the summer.  I think.

The problem I see is that they also cannot replenish whatever energy reserves they expend during the battle in as short a time.  In the summer, they may use up far more energy during the struggle, but their metabolism is high and as long as they can keep finding food (easy during the summer) they can replenish their energy reserves quickly.  As Chief said, they eat far less often in the winter, because their food is less easy to find--even though the food that remains is slowed down the same as they are.  So they can't replenish whatever energy they use up as quickly.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Sounds plausible. I hadn't really thought a whole lot about it until now. 

[fishinwrench]

Flys (insects), and other cold blooded creatures, are alot easier to catch in cold temperatures because they don't move around much, and when they do it isn't very fast.  In fishing you need to get a cold blooded creature to not only move but to EAT, in order to catch them.  A piece of apple pie is perfectly safe from flys, ants and gnats in temps below 55°.

Biologically speaking, what is it about some fish that makes them more active in colder temps than other fish ?   Trout for instance will charge 20 feet with gusto to eat something the size of a speck of pepper in near freezing water.

[Guest]

On 1/7/2017 at 10:31 AM, Chief Grey Bear said:

But being fish are cold blooded, do they have to expend more energy to get the same or equal "movement" if you will, as they do in warm water conditions? 

When hooked, is a bass actually burning more calories and energy to attempt the same escape maneuvers?

 

The answer to your question pertaining to endothermic ("warm-blooded") animals would be yes, endothermic animals would burn more calories to get the same or equal movement in "cold" water compared to "warm" water, because cold water is denser than warm water and therefore would cause more resistance to a given movement and would result in more calories burned.

It gets tricky when you ask that question relating to ectothermic ("cold blooded") animals, because different species of fish can have different rates that their metabolism varies between "warm" and "cold" water.  If the difference between active metabolism is minimal for a given fish species between "warm" and "cold" water, then the greater resistance of cold water to a given movement may result in more calories burned.  If you have a fish species that has a big difference in active metabolism between "warm" and "cold" water, the fish may not burn more calories trying to accomplish the same evasive maneuver---The lower amount of calories burned during active metabolism may not be offset by the higher amount of calories that would be burned do to cold water being more dense and causing greater resistance---That is, if the consumption of the fish is high enough to produce enough energy to perform the maneuver in the first place.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, fishinwrench said:

Flys (insects), and other cold blooded creatures, are alot easier to catch in cold temperatures because they don't move around much, and when they do it isn't very fast.  In fishing you need to get a cold blooded creature to not only move but to EAT, in order to catch them.  A piece of apple pie is perfectly safe from flys, ants and gnats in temps below 55°.

Biologically speaking, what is it about some fish that makes them more active in colder temps than other fish ?   Trout for instance will charge 20 feet with gusto to eat something the size of a speck of pepper in near freezing water.

Metabolism can vary between different fish species at near freezing temperatures.  Trout for example, have higher metabolic demands at near freezing temperatures than say a Largemouth Bass, therefore, they are more active than bass because they have to consume more prey to provide the energy to maintain themselves.  

[fishinwrench]

A certain degree of metabolism isn't bred into creatures, it is controlled by diet, energy demands, and the frequency of dietary intake, is it not? 

So brothers of the same species can have different metabolic rates.  Fish, reptiles, and insects all seem to drastically reduce activity rates at about the same temperature, for the most part, but there are some exceptions among creatures that share the same diet and live in the same habitat.  So there is obviously a misunderstood element there.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Al Agnew said:

As Chief said, they eat far less often in the winter, because their food is less easy to find--even though the food that remains is slowed down the same as they are.  So they can't replenish whatever energy they use up as quickly.

Fish don't eat less in winter because their food is harder to find, they eat less in winter because their requirements for maintenance and activity metabolism is lower, so they do not have to consume as much forage.  

Fish in cold water often do not need to replenish whatever energy they use up that quick, because their energy requirements for maintenance metabolism is low, which aids in the recovery process after a fish is caught and released.

In contrast, a stressed or injured fish at warm water temperatures is burning up a lot more calories while trying to recover, because of higher maintenance metabolism requirements. Fish in warm water also have a higher oxygen demand than in cold water and warm water also holds less oxygen for a double whammy. Also, fish in warm water are often more suceptable to infection and disease.  All of these factors can come into play and result in higher mortality rates of fish that are caught and released in warm water.

Also, I realize that you guys already mentioned some of those points, but i figured I'd reiterate them to shown how they can all be related to higher fish mortality in warm water.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, fishinwrench said:

A certain degree of metabolism isn't bred into creatures, it is controlled by diet, energy demands, and the frequency of dietary intake, is it not? 

So brothers of the same species can have different metabolic rates.  Fish, reptiles, and insects all seem to drastically reduce activity rates at about the same temperature, for the most part, but there are some exceptions among creatures that share the same diet and live in the same habitat.  So there is obviously a misunderstood element there.

Metabolic demands can be unique to a given fish species in relation to water temperature based on the physiology of the fish. Metabolism probably can vary somewhat between members of the same fish species, and some fish species do have similar metabolic demands in relation to water temperate (for example Rainbow and Brown Trout).  However, metabolic demands do vary among some fish species in relation to water temperature, and that is a major reason why some are very active in cold water and some are dormant.

[grizwilson]

8 hours ago, Micropterus said:

The answer to your question pertaining to endothermic ("warm-blooded") animals would be yes, endothermic animals would burn more calories to get the same or equal movement in "cold" water compared to "warm" water, because cold water is denser than warm water and therefore would cause more resistance to a given movement and would result in more calories burned.

It gets tricky when you ask that question relating to ectothermic ("cold blooded") animals, because different species of fish can have different rates that their metabolism varies between "warm" and "cold" water.  If the difference between active metabolism is minimal for a given fish species between "warm" and "cold" water, then the greater resistance of cold water to a given movement may result in more calories burned.  If you have a fish species that has a big difference in active metabolism between "warm" and "cold" water, the fish may not burn more calories trying to accomplish the same evasive maneuver---The lower amount of calories burned during active metabolism may not be offset by the higher amount of calories that would be burned do to cold water being more dense and causing greater resistance---That is, if the consumption of the fish is high enough to produce enough energy to perform the maneuver in the first place.

That's just what I was thinking...LOL Micropterus has forgot more than I will ever know about the science of fish.