What Factors influence the Smallmouth population

[Smalliebigs]

Thanks Al

[SpoonDog]

4 hours ago, MoCarp said:

not accurate...if you take a dog you can breed them up or down in a few generations..fish can be selectively bred much faster than most species....genetics are the future....look at the success Missouri is having with triploid brown trout..in a put and take environment it can be ideal

 

...triploid fish are sterile.  Their genetic advantage is they never have to allocate energy towards eggs and milt, which means that genetic advantage will never be conferred to their offspring.  They're  Eunuchs.  Dump a bunch of sterile fish into a stream hoping they'll mate with the natives to produce better fishing through superior genetics, and you'll be sorely disappointed.  What's more- you'll have fast growing fish which can't spawn competing with slower-growing native fish which CAN spawn- depressing the entire population overall.  You're not just doing nothing, you're putting considerable effort into making things worse.

That's why it's so important the people understand genetics before leaping to it as a cure-all.

[tjm]

4 hours ago, snagged in outlet 3 said:

I’ve looked at that pic a dozen times.   Looked at hundreds of pics of smallies and they look just like that. 

What specific markings make it s hybrid?!?

me too

2 hours ago, Al Agnew said:

You can also see the rows of spots below the midline, and a hint of a darker midline on that fish.  the tail shape is more spotted bass as well. 

The spots and lateral line don't stand out to me in those pictures, since you mentioned it the tail is more like a spotted, but on the water I doubt I would have noticed. I see vertical barring, is that the clue that it is hybrid rather than pure spot?

Al that's a nice bit of history there and I was unaware of the northern stockings by MDC. I'll buy your theory of Mississippi migration too, makes perfect sense and fits the facts as we know them. A question, why do you reckon the spots have not displaced smallmouth in streams where they both exist historically yet have in the Meramec drainage? Is that perhaps temperature related? 

[fishinwrench]

4 minutes ago, tjm said:

The spots and lateral line don't stand out to me in those pictures, since you mentioned it the tail is more like a spotted, but on the water I doubt I would have noticed.

Me three.  I don't think I would have known.    

The Little Niangua supposedly has Spot/Smallie hybrids but I've never been able to pinpoint one.    Do the hybrids still have the dimples on their lower jaw like Smallies?   I have caught a few "smallmouth" that lacked those little lower jaw divets.

[Gavin]

After you see a couple hundred of them it is obvious. Wish I saw less of them, river bass of the future most likely. 

[Jim Spriggs]

Thanks, Al, I wasn’t aware of any of the Spotted bass history.  That’s fascinating (and unfortunate) stuff.  

Has there been any serious discussion by MDC to eliminate creel or size limits on Spots in any of the creek or river systems those fish have populated?  Has MO Smallmouth Alliance or any other group lobbied MDC on this issue?  

 

[Jim Spriggs]

The table below is from the MDC’s 2015 electrofishing survey.  The average # Of Smallmouth caught per hour was 11; and it was about 18 per hour from the State Park to Hwy 8 (if you drop out Riverview, which is an outlier, the average is still 10.75 upriver from the Park), while it was only 6.25 per hour below the Park to River ‘Round

How much of the decline in the number of smalmouth caught per hour below the State Park versus above might be due o Spotted bass versus the character of the river?

 

 

 

[Mitch f]

4 hours ago, fishinwrench said:

Me three.  I don't think I would have known.    

The Little Niangua supposedly has Spot/Smallie hybrids but I've never been able to pinpoint one.    Do the hybrids still have the dimples on their lower jaw like Smallies?   I have caught a few "smallmouth" that lacked those little lower jaw divets.

Here is an example of a smallmouth next to a very much spotted bass like hybrid. This is an extreme example. The fish on the right probably has more spot genes than smallmouth. But those spot like features are there and they obviously get more faded as their smallmouth gene percentage increases.

[Hog Wally]

27 minutes ago, Mitch f said:

Here is an example of a smallmouth next to a very much spotted bass like hybrid. This is an extreme example. The fish on the right probably has more spot genes than smallmouth. But those spot like features are there and they obviously get more faded as their smallmouth gene percentage increases.

I'm certified color blind so these hybrids look different through my eyes but i clearly see the spot pattern on a Smallie backdrop.  I've only caught s handful and I removed them all from the river.  As I do nearly every spot I catch.  A little spotted bass makes the best fish taco 🌮 I've ever ate 

[Hog Wally]

39 minutes ago, Jim Spriggs said:

The table below is from the MDC’s 2015 electrofishing survey.  The average # Of Smallmouth caught per hour was 11; and it was about 18 per hour from the State Park to Hwy 8 (if you drop out Riverview, which is an outlier, the average is still 10.75 upriver from the Park), while it was only 6.25 per hour below the Park to River ‘Round

How much of the decline in the number of smalmouth caught per hour below the State Park versus above might be due o Spotted bass versus the character of the river?

 

 

 

Jennifer told me it's because the river below state park becomes less suitable for smallmouth  especially big smallmouth.  Like the stclair area(according to Jen) is not suitable smallmouth habitat.   Yes, I have that in writing.  I find her information hard to believe.  Everything she has told me from walleye to smallmouth goes against everything I have seen