The Bradford Pear conspiracy !

[BilletHead]

43 minutes ago, fishinwrench said:

I ain't mad.  And I liked catching hybrids too, until I started recognizing what was going on.  

The whole thing might just be a non-issue, but if by chance it evolves into a real issue there's no turning back, no fixing it.  And IMO it won't have been worth it.   Hybrids are fun, but they have genes that are detrimental to survival, and I don't think we need to be mixing those genes with native white bass who have done quite well on their own since the beginning of time.    Things like that shouldn't be phucked with, regardless of how smart you think you are, and especially by the same folks that gave us kids all those pear trees to plant.  That's my only point.

              I get that too and couldn't agree more. Man has messed up before and we need answers if there is a problem,

BilletHead

[fishinwrench]

By the time they discover that it's a problem it will be too late.

If they quit stocking hybrids TODAY there might be a chance to eliminate the possibility of completely altering the genes of native fish for good.   But they aren't gonna stop because they think they are so smart, and that they have already learned all there is to know.   This is why I am so bitter towards biologists.  

[BilletHead]

5 minutes ago, fishinwrench said:

By the time they discover that it's a problem it will be too late.

If they quit stocking hybrids TODAY there might be a chance to eliminate the possibility of completely altering the genes of native fish for good.   But they aren't gonna stop because they think they are so smart, and that they have already learned all there is to know.   This is why I am so bitter towards biologists.  

         Again Wrench is there a problem? Yu are the only one that I have heard this from and I have been asking around. Will continue as I want an answer too. 

[nomolites]

3 minutes ago, fishinwrench said:

By the time they discover that it's a problem it will be too late.

If they quit stocking hybrids TODAY there might be a chance to eliminate the possibility of completely altering the genes of native fish for good.   But they aren't gonna stop because they think they are so smart, and that they have already learned all there is to know.   This is why I am so bitter towards biologists.  

I fish for stripers in LOZ a LOT and it seems they are stocking more stripers than hybrids recently...like BH I like them both in addition to whites and other native species.  LOZ has a seemingly unending supply of shad hence the great fishery she is; can’t see as they have made much of a dent in them - I personally believe they help keep the gizzard shad in check where the LM and Blue Cats alone can’t.  The overall mild winters and lack of shad kills also has the baitfish booming.  I know the hybrids and stripers will run up river in a false spawn but I have seen no indication of success - how are you IDing the progeny fish?  I would believe a striper male being capable over a hybrid male...but both are supposed to be shootin’ blanks.

Mike

[Old plug]

4 hours ago, Gavin said:

Had one fall on my house during a storm about 10yrs ago. Insurance company found hail damage that was not disclosed on our inspection 2 yrs prior, so I got a new roof and $1500 to get the tree removed. Bought a $500 chainsaw and took the tree out myself. Have taken most  of the Bradfords off of my property, and the chainsaw still runs.

 

 

 

I will certainly second that Wrench . I used to take care of those along Elks drive in Laurie. I wanted to remove them several years ago but you cannot tell those knot heads they are going to cause problems. They just say all they need in to be trimmed. Trouble with that is the limbs grow upward If you remove the lower one they will leave great holes higher up in the tree. I would just as soon deal with a t5 yr old than some of them up there.  They also are  attack those 7 year locust A couple year go they were so infested the limbs were covered covered with boring holes to lay eggs in..                                            

[BilletHead]

9 minutes ago, nomolites said:

I fish for stripers in LOZ a LOT and it seems they are stocking more stripers than hybrids recently...like BH I like them both in addition to whites and other native species.  LOZ has a seemingly unending supply of shad hence the great fishery she is; can’t see as they have made much of a dent in them - I personally believe they help keep the gizzard shad in check where the LM and Blue Cats alone can’t.  The overall mild winters and lack of shad kills also has the baitfish booming.  I know the hybrids and stripers will run up river in a false spawn but I have seen no indication of success - how are you IDing the progeny fish?  I would believe a striper male being capable over a hybrid male...but both are supposed to be shootin’ blanks.

Mike

            May be a timing thing Mike.  Spawning at different times. I know Whites are the first up,  I see very few Hybrids at the same time I catch my spawning whites. I do know it takes just one though to make it happen. I have never seen what Wrench sees in my area. All other fishermen I have asked have not noticed either. So this being said it is the same when I catch my hybrids I only seen one or two whites at that same time over many, many years,

  BilletHead

[MoCarp]

Bradford Pears and their cultivars, have been over planted for 25 years, once they mature the lose their compact shape and they don't like ice, a few years ago Carthage where I live had a tree planting surge and worked with consultants and gave out a great deal of very nice trees, it was hoped it could off set the aging population of sugar maples the city is well known for, all trees had to have fall color and be sturdy in our climate, trees like The “Autumn Purple” ash tree (Fraxinus americana “Autumn Purple”)...Nyssa sylvatica, black gum...maidenhair or ginkgo blob, linden tree and few others, those trees are now pushing 30 years old and the wisdom of those who applied for the grants to do this have made Carthage a much prettier place for generations to come...I was very seriously considering being an arborist as trees have been a passion of mine, ever took vacations to seek out trees I have never seen before,

Zǔfùmǔ zhǒng xiàle shù, sūnzi què shōuhuòle shù yīn.... is an ancient chinese proverb, I hold this dear to my heart and should be something we all should realize as it applies to many things in life it means  "the grandparents plant the tree yet the grandchildren harvest the shade"

 

 

[fishinwrench]

1 hour ago, nomolites said:

I fish for stripers in LOZ a LOT and it seems they are stocking more stripers than hybrids recently...like BH I like them both in addition to whites and other native species.  LOZ has a seemingly unending supply of shad hence the great fishery she is; can’t see as they have made much of a dent in them - I personally believe they help keep the gizzard shad in check where the LM and Blue Cats alone can’t.  The overall mild winters and lack of shad kills also has the baitfish booming.  I know the hybrids and stripers will run up river in a false spawn but I have seen no indication of success - how are you IDing the progeny fish?  I would believe a striper male being capable over a hybrid male...but both are supposed to be shootin’ blanks.

Mike

The hybrids seem to eat the same size shad as the Whites do, regardless of their larger size.  I don't believe they make a dent in the mature gizzards at all.  

There are a half dozen places where you can either stand on a high bank or a bridge and watch the whites spawn, and the hybrids will shadow a female right along with the male whites.  When you catch one he'll blow jizz all over you so it's pretty obvious that they mean business and aren't just there to offer support.

The mutts are hard to ID unless you are catching a mix of both pure whites AND mutts.  The lines near the tail are different, and they do this quivering thing when you're handling them that pure whites never do. The tongue patch thing is all over the place, some have single patches and others have two, some have 3. 

The guys that run with me will confirm that I started talking about "something different about the fish I was catching" several years before I realized what it was.    I got totally consumed with fly-fishing for whites, and practically did nothing else for about 7 years..... otherwise I probably wouldn't have picked up on the changes.   It just so happened that I was deep into it at the time and started noticing something about the fish I was catching had changed.  It took me 3 years to figure out that they were two different types of White bass, and since I have stood there for hours and hours watching them go through their spawning ordeal and witnessed the obvious hybrids (not the really big ones, but ones just big enough to know they aren't Whites)  nudging the female whites to the surface over and over again, it didn't take anymore brain wizardry to realize where the odd acting/different "White bass" were coming from.  

Far as I'm concerned it doesn't need to get anymore scientific than that.  There are a couple of other behavioral differences that I'm not gonna get into now because I'm tired of typing but I'll tell you now that the "white bass" that Old Plug and many others get into during the Fall on the lower lake are not pure whites.  Y'all are catching the mutts.   Whites blow up on the surface in the evenings alot, so do hybrids, but the mutts (for a behavioral example) never do I don't think, not even when they are up on the super shallow flats.   If they are blitzing on the surface then they are either pure whites or pure hybrid stripers.  And for some reason the Niangua's don't have near as many mutts as the Gravois/lower lake and the upper Osage does. I still catch mostly pure whites when I fish the upper Niangua and Little Niangua.

Pure White 

Striper 

White/Hybrid mutt 

 

[fishinwrench]

Just to clarify.....The reason they say that Hybrids can't reproduce isn't because they are technically sterile.   It is because the female eggs lack the adhesive properties and density of a white bass egg, so the hybrid eggs usually end up drifting into an eddy and suffocating.   There is nothing sterile about male hybrid striper sperm (and as far as I know nobody has ever claimed that).  So the mutt genetics are most definitely being passed on.  

Good thing or bad thing?  Who knows?  But it is happening.

[Deadstream]

6 hours ago, fishinwrench said:

 I believe me

Amen.