Larry Dablemont on telecheck

[MoCarp]

Quote

 

Larry Dablemont

 

 

All hunters need to read this... please share or pass along. ----letter received a week ago.

I will never use the telecheck system again and after you read this letter you may not want to do so either. It comes from a veteran employee of the Missouri Department of Conservation, a man who I have talked to often, who for obvious reasons wants his name not used. This letter obviously comes from someone very close to their enforcement division. No one else would have this information. L.A.D.
“Dear Mr. Dablemont.---We began a new phase of law enforcement when the MDC adopted the telecheck system. It provides much information about the individual who uses it, capturing the hunter’s name address and permit number. It provides the date and time of permit purchase, the date and time of the animal being checked, the telephone number or computer address used to check it. It also provides the history of the permits purchased and all animals checked.  
Soon the telecheck systemwas being used as a major component of law enforcement by agents. The telecheck system was soon being used to instigate investigations. It started with “quick check” investigations, where there was only a short time between permit purchase and the checking of the animal. This was very successful and lead to a broadening use of the system. So it began to be modified to get more information for enforcement agents.  
Filters and alerts were place on the system. It began to be used to provide information on such things as; multiple animal checks, after hours checks and first time checkers. Filters provided real-time alerts for short interval checks and checks on landowners with small acreage. The system has also been used to check on hunter education certification. While it sounds like a good tool for legitimate law enforcement, resulting investigations began to come dangerously close to violating civil trights.  
The system allows for PROFILING FEMALE HUNTERS, and others who are first time users of the system. Agents began to use any information they deem suspicious to find and confront hunters who have legally checked a deer or turkey. Many times these confrontations occur on a hunter’s private property with no probable cause.Typical of this would be singling out a woman with a first time archery kill. Probably none of these hunters are given their Miranda Rights before they are questioned. They are routinely commanded to provide proof they killed the animal legally!!!
Some hunters are told to prove their proficiency with a gun or archery equipment. Agents often want to be taken to the site of the kill. The requests are more like demands, with hunters feeling they have no rights nor options other than to comply.
Telecheck is the basis for what we call ‘audits’ These audits are encouraged by the supervisors, and amount to telecheck enforcement saturations.  
Agents saturate a county or region and spread out over that area, with one individual monitoring a laptop computer, directing other agents to individuals who have recently checked animals. The agents then confront that individual and try to find a violation. Most audits occur on private property with Miranda Rights optional. They intimidate people into compliance with what they want.  
The state statute that allows for agents to enter private property to check for some kind of violation is probably stretched. It is unclear whether a telecheck suspicion investigation is legal.
Our agents have no special search and seizure powers. They must adhere to the Fourth Amendment of the U.S.Constitution. They must have a search warrant or consent to search and they are required to give Miranda Rights before questioning. Agents must have probable cause before making an arrest.  
Finally if you use the Mo Hunt App on your I-phone to buy permits there is something you need to do… You need to look in settings for the MO Hunt App and disable the “Use Specific Location”. Otherwise MDC agents can track your location!!!”

 

[Seth]

So is Larry giving up hunting then because I'm pretty sure that all game has to be checked in via internet, app or telephone. It has been that way for years. You can't just "give up telechecking" unless you plan on not killing anything or just not check in game, which is illegal.

[MOPanfisher]

Agents used information prior to telecheck.  They would get printouts with things flagged, like a permit purchased at 4 pm and a deer check at 5 pm. Follow the laws and its no problem.

[MoCarp]

Agents are just using information to bust cheaters, which IMHO is good detective work, people should know that the system can be used to bust people, perhaps keep more people honest

[jdmidwest]

Agents have been using new tech to catch poachers.  Call it profiling, but its the MDC, they are out to catch the offenders without political correctness.  That is their job.  They are not strapped by the means of local law enforcement.  They are out to catch poachers.  The thefts of our wild game.

Due process is in order.  All orders of the law are observed.  They have just found a loophole.

The loophole is that stupid people tend to break the law in a certain manner.  They have seen the trend and acted upon it and made arrests.  And it has irritated someone.

Dableblabber is a.....    Fill in the blank.

[fishinwrench]

Stupidest thing I've ever heard/read.

If someone is going to illegally kill a deer they aren't likely to bother with a permit in the first place unless they are a paranoid idiot.  Just kill it and get it in the freezer. There's no need to get the government involved.

With the number of deer that get smeared on the roads...why do they even bother with tags, checks, ect.  during hunting season anyway?    Killing one with a vehicle and letting it rot in the ditch is legal, but killing one with a rifle and eating it is illegal.    Makes no sense at all.  And we are paying for all this "enforcement".

[Gavin]

I don't care. Not one little bit. 

[fishinwrench]

9 minutes ago, Gavin said:

I don't care. Not one little bit. 

I only care because the amount of our money MDC spends every year, fretting over a few road goats, could be used for more useful things.

Even the trespassing calls they respond to during deer season is a waste of MDC funding.  Trespassing calls should be handled by the county lawmen....Not MDC.   Why do we have to pay DOUBLE for it?  We're already paying the county to do it, so let them.

[Gavin]

Deer is the only they seem to enforce. Why is the question.They are everywhere. See urban deer all the time, turkey too. Could use a few less in my neighborhood. Thicker west of 270 in the STL area. 

[tjm]

First , I think tele-check is meant to allow more poaching, a don't ask don't tell sort of thing.  As wrench points out no one knows what is not reported ... no ones looking in the back of trucks at gas stations anymore. Deer management probably brings in more Federal program funds than it costs and those funds would be lost if we did away with seasons and limits.  I was told that if  I even  apply for land owner tags it brings in more dollars. Even bringing in the technology of tele-checking probably generated Federal funding. Think how much savings that is over the manning of zumpteen zillion local check stations and payment for use of the parking lots/driveways, that must have been pretty costly? Deer season is now about five months out of twelve and almost any implement is legal at some point in that time frame, it looks to me like they want more deer killed-period.

I doubt even an idiot like bablemouth believes a poacher is going  to kill a deer then go buy a permit and do the tele-checking from the parking lot at wally world. It is probable that agents do inquire about some checks, what else is their job? If they are off talking to a lady archer, they are giving anglers a break.

That said, I don't recall ever meeting an Agent or Game Warden that I'd call intimidating, have you?