North Fork issue

[snagged in outlet 3]

10 minutes ago, jdmidwest said:

Crap or Carp???

Same thing

[kawaii5o]

On 1/4/2021 at 9:24 AM, gotmuddy said:

My (worthless) opinion is there are two things missing from this discussion.

1. no one has mentioned that stocked trout from cloud 9 ranch(on spring creek) surely enter the river every year and affect genetics

It should be noted that actual changes in genetics occur over of hundreds of years at minimum and more often over thousands. Any perceived differences in one fish from another are from generationally learned behavioral/environmental factors. Just like humans, there is no meaningful difference (~.01%) in the genes of one person or another no matter their heritage and especially in the case of NF trout, considering they were originally stockers in the first place. 

 

So in my also worthless opinion, I wouldn't put too much stock in the genes of the wild trout. As long as they can successfully breed under pressure they should be the same as they have historically been. 

[fishinwrench]

I've been trout fishing since way back before anybody had an internet connection, and I can remember Crane creek, during a wicked 3-4 year drought, being nothing but a series of scattered mossy, slimey mud puddles with nothing but tadpoles in them.....as far down the literally bone-dry creekbed as you wanted to go. 

Then as we got into the mid 1990's and the internet started coming into our homes, suddenly here are these stories about how it was stocked from railcars way WAY back in the day, before I was even born,....and that THE SAME TROUT were still there.   

Why Buullshiiit !!!    I don't know everything, but I know better than that.    That whole story, protected as it may be, is a giant crock of BS.

[jdmidwest]

8 hours ago, fishinwrench said:

I've been trout fishing since way back before anybody had an internet connection, and I can remember Crane creek, during a wicked 3-4 year drought, being nothing but a series of scattered mossy, slimey mud puddles with nothing but tadpoles in them.....as far down the literally bone-dry creekbed as you wanted to go. 

Then as we got into the mid 1990's and the internet started coming into our homes, suddenly here are these stories about how it was stocked from railcars way WAY back in the day, before I was even born,....and that THE SAME TROUT were still there.   

Why Buullshiiit !!!    I don't know everything, but I know better than that.    That whole story, protected as it may be, is a giant crock of BS.

I thought we traded turkeys for them.  Look for rattlesnakes nearby, probably fell out of the same helicopter.

[fishinwrench]

15 hours ago, jdmidwest said:

I thought we traded turkeys for them. 

The story I heard/read (on the Internet) was that a railcar was loaded with McCloud Rainbows, and was actually headed out East somewhere...... but low and behold... "the train stalled out and they weren't going to be able to get it going again for several days.  So knowing that all the little trout par would perish before reaching their intended destination, the railroad crew took it upon themselves to haul them, from the water filled rail car, in milk cannisters to the nearest stream.....which JUST SO HAPPENED TO BE Crane creek".  

 

Sheesh🙄  Such an utterly heroic tale to tell, but also a galactic crock of bull.    Reminds me of the giant catfish the size of Cadillacs stories, near every dam that was ever built.

I believe our pal Al Agnew even did a painting for MDC, depicting an old 1930's MDC pickup and a MDC agent dumping a milk cannister into a stream.   Hell, I don't think we  even had a Missouri dept. of Conservation back then.   And if we did then how did the railroad guys contact them.  Morse code?

_..  .._. ___   .. __  ..._  __._.    .._.   __..  ...__.  ..__.    which translates to:.   Help Come Now Crane Mo Have Free Trout You Make Money 

[jdmidwest]

I saw a fish truck break down from a private hatchery one time.  He dumped his load in private ponds before his areators ran out of oxygen.

I think the real story was that the first stockings of trout were done by railcars in many southern streams. I remember old footage showing aerial stockings of remote lakes by plane dumps out west when I was a kid.  Trout has always been wanted everywhere for some reason.

[Quillback]

In Washington they'd fill plastic bags with water, put 500 fingerlings in the bag and get volunteers to hike in and stock the trout in the alpine lakes.  I never would do that myself, it's a workout to get hike up into those lakes without having an additional several gallons of water in your backpack.

Made for some great fishing if you were willing to do the hike.  In some of the lakes that had streams coming in the trout could spawn and they'd have a self-sufficient population, and if they were brook trout they could get over-populated and you'd have a lake full of runt brookies.

But that all changed about 20 years ago, those alpine lakes never had native populations of trout, but did have salamanders and frogs.  To protect the fragile amphibian populations they stopped stocking trout in a lot of the lakes.  

[Chief Grey Bear]

9 hours ago, fishinwrench said:

 

The story I heard/read (on the Internet) was that a railcar was loaded with McCloud Rainbows, and was actually headed out East somewhere...... but low and behold... "the train stalled out and they weren't going to be able to get it going again for several days.  So knowing that all the little trout par would perish before reaching their intended destination, the railroad crew took it upon themselves to haul them, from the water filled rail car, in milk cannisters to the nearest stream.....which JUST SO HAPPENED TO BE Crane creek".  

 

Sheesh🙄  Such an utterly heroic tale to tell, but also a galactic crock of bull.    Reminds me of the giant catfish the size of Cadillacs stories, near every dam that was ever built.

I believe our pal Al Agnew even did a painting for MDC, depicting an old 1930's MDC pickup and a MDC agent dumping a milk cannister into a stream.   Hell, I don't think we  even had a Missouri dept. of Conservation back then.   And if we did then how did the railroad guys contact them.  Morse code?

_..  .._. ___   .. __  ..._  __._.    .._.   __..  ...__.  ..__.    which translates to:.   Help Come Now Crane Mo Have Free Trout You Make Money 

You need to spend as much time researching as you spreading. 
Stocking by rail car is well documented all across the US. 
Now with that said, Crane Creek was not stocked by rail car in the late 1800’s. 
I haven’t been able to trace down the first recorded stocking of Crane. It could have been stocked in the 1880’s, but it wasn’t by railcar. 

[snagged in outlet 3]

13 minutes ago, Chief Grey Bear said:

You need to spend as much time researching as you spreading. 
Stocking by rail car is well documented all across the US. 
Now with that said, Crane Creek was not stocked by rail car in the late 1800’s. 
I haven’t been able to trace down the first recorded stocking of Crane. It could have been stocked in the 1880’s, but it wasn’t by railcar. 

There's a bunch of stuff out there.  I'm not claiming it's true.  Just a quick search.

https://mdc.mo.gov/conmag/2000/01/rainbows-crane-creek

https://www.mollyjogger.com/blogs/our-journal/the-legend-of-crane-creek

[Chief Grey Bear]

1 hour ago, Chief Grey Bear said:

You need to spend as much time researching as you spreading. 
Stocking by rail car is well documented all across the US. 
Now with that said, Crane Creek was not stocked by rail car in the late 1800’s. 
I haven’t been able to trace down the first recorded stocking of Crane. It could have been stocked in the 1880’s, but it wasn’t by railcar. 

 

1 hour ago, snagged in outlet 3 said:

There's a bunch of stuff out there.  I'm not claiming it's true.  Just a quick search.

https://mdc.mo.gov/conmag/2000/01/rainbows-crane-creek

https://www.mollyjogger.com/blogs/our-journal/the-legend-of-crane-creek

Again, I’m just saying Crane was not stocked by railcar in the 1880’s. 
The railroad wasn’t built through Crane until 1905. 
As stated, I fully acknowledge that stocking by railcar was widespread over the entire US during the late 1800’s early 1900’s.