Make A Few Calls

[snagged in outlet 3]

17 hours ago, fishinwrench said:

They just in the last 2 years (I think....TIME seems to go so fast these days) increased the Trout stamp cost.  And immediately after the increase they appeared to do EVEN LESS.    Less in the parks, and far less in the Red and White ribbon areas.     

I'm not so petty as to fuss over a couple dollars, so that really wasn't my point. My point, and it's undisputable, is that the quality of Trout fishing in this state was noticably better way back before they had all this money, all these employees, and all of the latest high-tech equipment that they have now.  

I've only raised my rate twice since I started my business, and the first raise was at the request of my friendly competitors.  It was actually for THEIR benefit more than mine.    Nevertheless, I definitely never became more of a slacker after doing so.  

 

I can’t argue about the quality of trout fishing going down the tubes.   I’ve been trout fishing in this state for 55 years and currently, aside from Taney it sux big time.  Fewer trout in the parks and rivers and what are there are dinks.  What happened to all the decent browns?!?

[snagged in outlet 3]

I take that back.  I know wat happened to the browns.   Too many people kept them.  Like that D bag on Current. What an idiot. 

[Johnsfolly]

18 hours ago, fishinwrench said:

They just in the last 2 years (I think....TIME seems to go so fast these days) increased the Trout stamp cost.  And immediately after the increase they appeared to do EVEN LESS.    Less in the parks, and far less in the Red and White ribbon areas.     

I'm not so petty as to fuss over a couple dollars, so that really wasn't my point. My point, and it's undisputable, is that the quality of Trout fishing in this state was noticably better way back before they had all this money, all these employees, and all of the latest high-tech equipment that they have now.  

I've only raised my rate twice since I started my business, and the first raise was at the request of my friendly competitors.  It was actually for THEIR benefit more than mine.    Nevertheless, I definitely never became more of a slacker after doing so.  

 

So you raised your rates twice and they raised it once. Doesn't seem like they are continually raising their fees like you stated in your original post. You also ignored or overlooked whether the cost of parts are more now then when you started your business or whether you pass those increased costs onto your clients. Maybe missed because I was being a bit sarcastic. That point is that if supplies cost more, staffing resources cost more, that just maybe the permit increases may not have kept up with those increases. So they may actually have less actual buying power now than in those good old days. I really have no idea either but I'm  not the one assuming that the extra $3 pet trout stamp or even the $2 increase in daily tags has them rolling in so much extra cash. You failed to consider whether there are the same number, more, or less people participating in catching trout which would also affect those revenues.

I would assume that in your business there is very little variability that would affect the outcome of each job. You may have to learn a different motor configuration but once that is learned then that isn't  an issue. You probably don't have to deal with outside influences which you have limited or no control over affecting your job performance. Things like disease, water quality, flooding, predation, effects of possible inbreeding,, etc. 

I really think that you oversimplify what is being done,  the issues that the department may be dealing with, and then complain about how they are squandering your extra couple of bucks a year. I don't  have the historical outlook that you and others have on numbers or size. But again that is not my point. I just don't like a somewhat superficial complaint about the continual increases with nothing being done when there isn't  consideration of economic reality.

I really like to trout fish but even fishing holdovers, the fishing in MO and most states east of the rockies really is just chasing stockers for rainbows and browns. There may have been a shift in the idea to stop vastly overstocking the creeks and streams as in the past. I don't know and won't try to speak to that point.

 

[fishinwrench]

4 hours ago, Johnsfolly said:

 

I really think that you oversimplify what is being done

How so?    

What you're telling me is that you're positive that the individual human effort is greater now, even though they have more hands on all kinds of digital state of the art equipment, than it was years ago when they had 6-7 guys using coffee cans, Mercury thermometers, and wheelbarrows.  

You didn't fish it much years ago, and you don't fish it now.....but you have a better understanding than those that did and do?     

Here's a little project for ya:.  Consider the SOH complex and the size of Taneycomo.  Now look at the Bennett Spring hatchery complex and the size of Bennett Spring & a couple miles of the Niangua......Now tell me why one is consistently so much better (more efficient) than the other.   And why it wasn't ALWAYS that way.   

[fishinwrench]

6 hours ago, Johnsfolly said:

I just don't like a somewhat superficial complaint about the continual increases with nothing being done when there isn't  consideration of economic reality.

I don't buy this.   I think that "what you don't like" is ME.    You dislike the way I carry myself on here, you think I'm crass and a troublemaker, so you're cocked and ready to dispute anything I say whenever you think you can.   And that's cool, I welcome it.   If I'm wrong about the wasted money and failing outcomes of the MDC Trout program then please, by all means set me straight.     

All of this defensive patting on the back about how they are operating currently, that you and others do.....is just ensuring that it will only continue to get worse, and never get any better.   

That's how I feel about it.   

[Johnsfolly]

On 12/12/2021 at 3:38 PM, fishinwrench said:

I don't buy this.   I think that "what you don't like" is ME.    You dislike the way I carry myself on here, you think I'm crass and a troublemaker, so you're cocked and ready to dispute anything I say whenever you think you can.   And that's cool, I welcome it.   If I'm wrong about the wasted money and failing outcomes of the MDC Trout program then please, by all means set me straight.     

All of this defensive patting on the back about how they are operating currently, that you and others do.....is just ensuring that it will only continue to get worse, and never get any better.   

That's how I feel about it.   

I don't  block you nor do I dig thru your posts looking for a fight. I do dislike the constant bashing of biologists and work hard to ignore those posts.. I could argue most but there is little that can be done to change opinions.  But when a person that owns a business expects that a single 40% increase in costs for those permits over the last 15 to 20 yrs would be such a windfall that vast changes should have been made is hard to not respond. There had to be consideration that labor costs, equipment and supply costs have likely out paced that increase over that time. So the statement of continually increasing fees is making them flush with money is misleading at best.

I'm not even arguing that the MDC isn't doing a worse job now than way back when. 

In terms of SOH, it's  been a while since I was there but do seem to recall that the facility may be twice the size or more of the one at Bennett. They also seem to recall that they didn't lose fish, particularly brood fish to the flooding events over the last few years either. Not sure of the age of either facility and whether upgrades were or are needed for either.  So I'm  not sure that there is an apple to apple comparison to be made between them.

[fishinwrench]

4 hours ago, Johnsfolly said:

when a person that owns a business expects that a single 40% increase in costs for those permits over the last 15 to 20 yrs would be such a windfall that vast changes should have been made is hard to not respond.

It's hard not to notice that after all of the "upgrades" production and efficiency goes DOWN substantially.

4 hours ago, Johnsfolly said:

 

I'm not even arguing that the MDC isn't doing a worse job now than way back when.

That is my main point.   They expanded the hatchery,  got way better equipment, hired more hands, started charging more money.....Then began producing LESS.  

4 hours ago, Johnsfolly said:

 

In terms of SOH, it's  been a while since I was there but do seem to recall that the facility may be twice the size or more of the one at Bennett

Right, SOH is twice the size.....but let's compare the size of the area they service.  It's probably 10x the size.   

[fishinwrench]

Furthermore...... We have a trout hatchery right down the road here.   Little Bitty/Teeny Tiny operation compared to the one at BS.   And is run by a family of hillbillies with a degree in SQUAT !

I bet you'd be completely blown away if you visited it.    Beautiful fish.  Rainbows and Brookies.   And ALOT of them.   

If THEY can do it.......?????? 

 

Take a look at this gorgeous specimen 

And that is a poor battered escapee, that BTW.....exceeds the Mo. State record listing by over a pound.

 

 

 

There are two catagories of OPINIONS.....Well Founded opinions, and Feel Good opinions.   I don't wanna insult anybody, but all of these reality ignoring-feel good opinions are detrimental to progress.

[snagged in outlet 3]

45 minutes ago, fishinwrench said:

There are two catagories of OPINIONS.....Well Founded opinions, and Feel Good opinions.   I don't wanna insult anybody, but all of these reality ignoring-feel good opinions are detrimental to progress.

Have you talked to the MDC?  Wrote a letter?  Anything?

[fishinwrench]

32 minutes ago, snagged in outlet 3 said:

Have you talked to the MDC?  Wrote a letter?  Anything?

In the past, yeah OF COURSE.  Regarding a number of things.   Total waste of time in every instance.   

Don't you remember how inflamed I was about the bottom of the Niangua being littered with gigged rainbows from Barclay all the way up to NRO ?   Spoke to 2 different offices.  Nobody even showed up to verify my concern about it.